ralaw

Great post!

__________________
This site has become nothing more than a decorated shed.

smrtguy

First of all, comparing players of different years bases solely on All NBA status is crazy, and you should officially be flamed for that.

The only reason D-Wade wasn't All-NBA first team this year is because of a certain guard who scored 81 points in 1 game and led the league in scoring. Enough said.

Here are some stats for ya:

Penny Hardaway 1995-1996 season: 21.7 PPG, 4.3 RPG, 7.1 APG
Playoffs: 23.3 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 6.0 APG
Swept in playoffs

Not bad, but not close to this

Dwyane Wade 2005-2006 season: 27.2 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 6.7 APG
Playoffs: 28.4 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 5.7 APG
NBA World Champion and Finals MVP

Penny has a slight edge on Assists, but that was because he had a healthy, young Shaq

smrtguy

Fixed!

Attached Images

0471654655-uk_book-resized200.jpg (9.4 KB, 8 views)

lessthanjake

Penny was a better passer, a more efficient scorer and despite Wade's all defensive team selection last year, hes IMO a better defender. Wade scored more and is a better rebounder. Overall, Wade is better, and I acknowledged that, but its close.

And for you to use their playoff fates as evidence of how good they are is ridiculous. These Heat would get swept by the 1996 Bulls too.

And of course I realize that you cant completely compare using all NBA selections but you are misleading yourself if you think it was much harder to make All NBA first team this year than it was in 1996. We had Kobe this year but there was MJ in 1996. Both were first team locks. Wade lost out to Steve Nash while Penny was seen as better than Gary Payton and John Stockton, two players that many feel are better than Nash.

Furthermore, Wade has a higher PER but only slightly, once again affirming my statement that Wade is only slightly better.

Oh and your idea that Shaq made Penny a better passer is not supported by the facts. After Shaq left his assist ratio stayed roughly the same, slightly worse though because of his injuries that made him less good at pretty much every facet of the game.

In conclusion, you are basically just wrong in every you just said

smrtguy

I'm glad all of your opinions totally agree with proven true facts and statistics.

Lets go to one of the idiotic statements you made above. "Wade lost out to Nash". I didn't know Steve Nash was a shooting guard! When did he change postitions? For the record, Steve Nash is a better POINT GUARD than D-Wade, but not a better 2-guard (that means shooting guard). D-Wade lost out to Kobe, not Nash. And year for year, Kobe this year may have beatin MJ for 96 all 1st team.


Penny was only better at 1 thing, passing. And, he was only slightly better (.4). That does not qualify as being "close".

lessthanjake

Ummm maybe you didnt know but the All NBA teams are done by guard/forward/center. It doesnt matter what type of guard you are. There can be two shooting guards on it or two point guards. So yes, Wade DID lose to Nash.

You dont believe me? Well let me give you some examples of certain years and the guards that made the All NBA first team

2003
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Both are shooting guards.

2000
Gary Payton
Jason Kidd
Both are point guards.

1992
Michael Jordan
Clyde Drexler/Chris Mullin (both are G/Fs but one of them was considered the guard and neither of them are point guards).
All of them are shooting guards.

1986
Magic Johnson
Isaiah Thomas
Both are point guards.

1980
Paul Westphal
George Gervin
Both shooting guards.

1979
Paul Westphal
George Gervin
Once again both shooting guards

1978
David Thompson
George Gervin
Both shooting guards.

1976
Tiny Archibald
Pete Maravich
Both point guards

1975
Walt Frazier
Tiny Archibald
Both point guards

Shall I go on? Its obviously well established that I am 100% correct. Now who's the one that made the idiotic statement?

smrtguy

I would ask you to continue, but it would just be covering the fact that you said Penny Hardaway was close to what D-Wade is. Bottom line, you were wrong on that. Penny good player, yes, close to D-Wade= no stinkin way

lessthanjake

Let me point out a couple other things.

1. You say they are very close as passers. No. Penny got an assist 25.5% of the time. Wade only 19.8%. Thats a greater difference than there is between Larry Bird and Kobe Bryant in passing. Its not slight.

2. Penny finished 3rd in MVP voting that year. He finished higher than Hakeem, Pippen, Payton, Malone, Kemp, Grant Hill, Stockton, Barkley, Zo, and YES Shaq (by a good portion I might add). Whats the highest Wade has been? Yep. 6th and WAY behind 5th place.

smrtguy

Close, as in APG, which is the only real figure that matters. What is "an assist 25.5% of the time"?

Did Penny ever win a ring? Did Penny put up Wade's #'s in his 3rd year of playing? Did Penny get on All-Defense Team his second year? Did Penny even come close to finals MVP? OK then, end of story. Goodness, you lost the argument already, give it up. Not even close.

lessthanjake

Its called assist ratio. Look it up. Wade has the ball in his hands more than Penny did, meaning he should get MORE assists. He doesnt. Penny was a way better passer.


Why does winning a ring show Wade is a better player? Maybe if Penny hadnt won practically any playoff series' you could say he was a loser and Wade was a winner. But he made the finals and lost to a team that would most likely beat these Heat too.

I think we all know saying so and so won a ring and so is better than another player is just a farce.

Well we were already comparing their third year...Penny got 3rd in MVP voting, and Wade got a distant 6th so yes he did.

No, but Penny was as good if not better as a defender as Wade.

Wade got all defensive team in a year with not as great of individual guard defenders as Penny played in. I mean when you have a prime Jordan and Payton in the league they are gonna take up the first team so you gotta be one of the best two other than them. Not easy. There was no guards so good last year that they were a lock. It was easier for Wade to get that.

He came close in that he was considered the most valuable player on a team in the finals...