Hakeem

Well, it really depends on what you define as a "class", doesn't it?

Gilgamesh

I'm not going to debate that Hakeem is a better defender than Russell because I believe I have listed a number of times on this forum that IMO Russell is the best defender of all-time (certainly the most revolutionary) but the truth is that it seems NONE of us has seen Russell consistently enough to make a strong and/or conclusive argument.

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BadBaronRudigor

Hakeem came into the league with as much acclaim and expectation as anyone with the Phi Slamma Jamma stuff, the Twin Towers publicity and being picked ahead of Jordan. He then proceeded to live up to it, but was faced with at least 2 other players of roughly equal stature that also came in full of hype and lived up to it just as well. David Robinson, Hakeem, and Ewing were all very competitive right up to those playoff, before then most had Robinson as the best, then Robinson's injury and Hakeem's continued success (plus Hakeem quit whining about his contract which had become an annoying annual ritual) had most people move Hakeem above the other two. By then though, there was another competitor . . . Shaq (and to a lesser extent Zo) who quickly started turning in flashier stats and who is now seen by many to be better than Hakeem because of the degree of his dominance of the weak center class after the Big Three retired. Hakeem is rarely considered worse than a top 5 center though . . . even I give him the edge over Robinson because of his continued excellence and playoff dominance.

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PauloCatarino

Yup. I have never seen him play. But i read a lot. And listening to his contemporaries (sp?) is enough. Hakeem was a great defender, but he was never as lauded (sp?) as Russell by his defensive exploits IN HIS ERA.

Minstrel

Nobody has ever been as lauded in their era, or dominated their era as much, as George Mikan. He must be the greatest basketball player of all-time.

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PauloCatarino

Wrong.

But that's besides the point.

People nowadays like to pretend that Hakeem Olajuwon was this uber-defender, heads and shoulders above everyone else in his time. that's false. Hakeem was a 2-time DPOY winner. Half the times as, say, Dikembe. Mutombo. In their respective primes, Hakeem had only a slight edge to D-Rob. a slight one, indeed. Yet, you want to make us believe he had a Bill Russell-like domination against his peers in defense.

Welll, that didn't happen. the fact that i said that Russell was more heralded as a defender in his era comparing to Hakeem stands. NOONE woul say in the day that Hakeem was a mucg better defender than D-Rob (contrary to Russell and Wilt).

Minstrel

It's not beside the point. The point is, acclaim in one's own era only speaks to how they compare to players of their own era. It doesn't speak to how they compare to players of other eras, except VERY tangentially...too tangentially to actually rest the case on it.

He doesn't have to be head-and-shoulders above everyone else in his time to be arguably the best ever. He does need to be the best in his era, obviously, but not by a large margin.

Olajuwon was not WAY ahead of the other best defenders of his era, because a lot of all-time great defenders played in his era. Most would say he was the best of his era, though. How far ahead of Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Pippen, Moncrief, Rodman, etc, he was is debateable but irrelevant to how Olajuwon stacks up to Russell...because it is also debatable how far ahead of Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Pippen, Moncrief, Rodman, etc, Russell was.

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PauloCatarino

Untill i see/read knowledgeble sources adressing Hakeem as Russell is adressed regardind defense, i'm with Russell.

Mrobison

So, within a couple hours I've read threads with both Pippin and Hakeem considered "clearly" the best defender of the 85-95 or so time frame. That sort of proves them both wrong, no?

I've heard claims that Chamberlain was close to as good of a defender as Russell, but didn't get credit because of not winning as often. If there is anything to that, this discussion is over, because he's the most dominant offensive player the game ever saw.

Minstrel

It would, except nobody has said that about Pippen.

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Mrobison

Sure seemed like it, in the "who's the best SF" thread. Admittedly, it's a long thread, and there were a lot of claims, but I got the impression that argument was made.