 |
|
12-06-2006, 09:13 AM
|
#46 (permalink)
|
|
All-Star
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,219
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
if he was simply a 3 point shooter and not a SCORER, he wouldn't have averaged 24 ppg over 9 postseasons and 101 games on a 60% ts%. 60%. 24 ppg. in the playoffs. and again, that doesn't completely capture how much he affected the game on the offensive side of the ball, where other teams constantly had to account for him running all over the court, creating opportunities for others.
consider this as well - from 1990 to 2000, the pacers were top 7 in the league in offensive efficiency 9 times, twice leading the league. reggie obviously plays a key role in that.
|
|
|
|
Sponsored Links
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
12-06-2006, 09:15 AM
|
#47 (permalink)
|
|
All-Star
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,219
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jericho
Is Reggie really better than Sidney Moncrief, Paul Westphal, and Dennis Johnson? If Miller makes it in, then so should other borderline cases like Dikembe Mutombo, Ben Wallace, and Alonzo Mourning, who again have been considered among the better players of their days but never really widely viewed as all-time greats.
|
his peak wasn't necessarily better than moncrief, westphal or dj (and i would clearly put moncrief ahead for peak play), but he did it for far longer than moncrief and westphal. that's a pretty significant differentiator when discussing the hof.
|
|
|
|
|
12-06-2006, 09:19 AM
|
#48 (permalink)
|
|
Granny Danger
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,889
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MemphisX
Reggie Miller can't hold T Mac's jock. Brokeback T Mac is better than Miller. I have always contended that Reggie Miller was a creation of the NY media to mitigate the fact that the NY teams were mediocre. So they created this fictional Reggie Miller who had a better story than game.
|
T-Mac? wow unbelievable the ignorance. T-Mac will never even be anything close to reggie
Quote:
|
People who dont think Reggie should be a HOF'er are the people who never watched him play.
|
simple as that.
|
|
|
|
|
12-09-2006, 09:06 PM
|
#49 (permalink)
|
|
BasketballBoards 6th Man
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 365
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by OneBadLT123
HOF is not just based on stats. HOF induction is based on what impact a player has had towards the game. Reggie Millers legacy isn’t about PPG, or RPG. It is about what achievements, and what impact he had towards the NBA as a player, that alone is enough to merit a HOF induction. Maybe not first ballot, but for sure no later then 2nd.
When will people understand that it’s not all about numbers and numbers alone? The HOF is designed to preserve their legacy, their memories, and their accomplishments.
|
What are his accomplishments, precisely? Never even considered the second best player at his position in the NBA. Only considered third best three times. Poor defense. No title. Basically a one-trick pony scorer. Efficient, but did not score in volume.
I give him no points for being the all-time leader in threes. That's just another shot. Like saying the best dunker ought to be in the HOF. Look at the top 20 for threes made all-time. Not a single HOFer or future HOFer on there, IMO. Ray Allen maybe. That's it.
Put him in the Hall of Very Good.
|
|
|
|
|
12-10-2006, 01:12 AM
|
#50 (permalink)
|
|
Granny Danger
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,889
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kirk64
What are his accomplishments, precisely?
|
25279 points. 12th all time in the scoring list. Most efficient free throw shooter ever. Most clutch performer in his generation.
Quote:
|
Never even considered the second best player at his position in the NBA. Only considered third best three times
|
Awards are always given by the end of the regular season. Reggie always lit up in the playoffs and considered one of the best playoff performers.
Above average defender. at least. Dont know where you get that from.
Neither does stockton, malone, ewing, barkley.. countless others hall of fame type of players.
Quote:
|
Look at the top 20 for threes made all-time. Not a single HOFer or future HOFer on there, IMO. Ray Allen maybe. That's it.
|
Look at the top 30 for points scored all time and count how many HOFs. Reggie is twelth on that list.
|
|
|
|
|
12-10-2006, 02:22 PM
|
#51 (permalink)
|
|
BasketballBoards 6th Man
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 365
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Auggie
25279 points. 12th all time in the scoring list. Most efficient free throw shooter ever. Most clutch performer in his generation.
|
Yeah, and he played more games than all but two other guys. Counting stats don't impress me.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Auggie
Awards are always given by the end of the regular season. Reggie always lit up in the playoffs and considered one of the best playoff performers.
|
Yet his team never won a title.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Auggie
Above average defender. at least. Dont know where you get that from.
|
From watching him, and his reputation.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Auggie
Neither does stockton, malone, ewing, barkley.. countless others hall of fame type of players.
|
Yeah, but those guys are slam-dunk first-ballot HOFers. They don't need a title. Reggie does, because he is a marginal type.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Auggie
Look at the top 30 for points scored all time and count how many HOFs. Reggie is twelth on that list.
|
Look at the HOF probability on basketball-reference.com. 41%, which would be the lowest for any player ever inducted. Right between World Free and Jerry Stackhouse. There's a reason for that. He was very good for a long time. If he had a title or two, he might get in. As it is, I don't see it.
|
|
|
|
|
12-10-2006, 02:59 PM
|
#52 (permalink)
|
|
The Truth
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 8,424
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Yes Reggie Miller should be in the Hall Of Fame. And I don't need any kind of stat to tell me any different. People need to judge players based on their eyes (the old eyeball test), and less regarding their stats.
|
|
|
|
|
12-11-2006, 05:56 AM
|
#53 (permalink)
|
|
All-Star
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,219
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kirk64
What are his accomplishments, precisely? Never even considered the second best player at his position in the NBA. Only considered third best three times. Poor defense. No title. Basically a one-trick pony scorer. Efficient, but did not score in volume.
I give him no points for being the all-time leader in threes. That's just another shot. Like saying the best dunker ought to be in the HOF. Look at the top 20 for threes made all-time. Not a single HOFer or future HOFer on there, IMO. Ray Allen maybe. That's it.
Put him in the Hall of Very Good.
|
again, saying he didn't score in volume ignores that he scored 24 ppg over a 10 year period (101 games) in the playoffs (his prime years), while maintaining a 60% ts%. while being the focal point. and being the lightning rod for opposing defenses, opening up things for teammates.
and all-nba isn't an award for "best" at your position. it's a seasonal accomplishment award. you can miss out on all-nba and still be considered the best, or 2nd best, or 3rd best. reggie ranked higher than his all-nba's indicate.
|
|
|
|
|
12-11-2006, 12:13 PM
|
#54 (permalink)
|
|
All-Star
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Braga, Portugal
Posts: 8,979
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by kflo
and all-nba isn't an award for "best" at your position. it's a seasonal accomplishment award. you can miss out on all-nba and still be considered the best, or 2nd best, or 3rd best. reggie ranked higher than his all-nba's indicate.
|
I kinda agree with this. Looking over the All-Nba teams, some years there aren't even 3 SGs on the teams. More often than not, 2 PGs were selected as the G-G in the teams. Other times, a SG/SF combo player.
Looking back when Reggie still provided a good scoring punch in the regular season, Magic and Jordan were perennial All-Nba 1st teamers. Then came Drexler. then PGs such as KG, Stockton, Timmy, etc. I can't think of a SG who was consistently better than Reggie Miller during his best scoring years (except for Jordan and Drexler). Mitch Richmond was a great player, and so was dumars. But better than Reggie, considering regular season AND playoffs? Hmmm...
__________________
(...) we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender (...)
|
|
|
|
|
12-13-2006, 12:31 AM
|
#55 (permalink)
|
|
BasketballBoards 6th Man
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 365
|
Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PauloCatarino
I kinda agree with this. Looking over the All-Nba teams, some years there aren't even 3 SGs on the teams. More often than not, 2 PGs were selected as the G-G in the teams. Other times, a SG/SF combo player.
Looking back when Reggie still provided a good scoring punch in the regular season, Magic and Jordan were perennial All-Nba 1st teamers. Then came Drexler. then PGs such as KG, Stockton, Timmy, etc. I can't think of a SG who was consistently better than Reggie Miller during his best scoring years (except for Jordan and Drexler). Mitch Richmond was a great player, and so was dumars. But better than Reggie, considering regular season AND playoffs? Hmmm...
|
Richmond was a better regular season player. His teams only made the playoffs a couple times, and he played well, but they didn't get very far.
Dumars was clearly better. Titles, all-defense 1st team four times. Reggie was a poor defensive player.
Listen, UCLA has been my favorite college team for more than 30 years. I love Reggie as a player. He just doesn't cut the mustard for the HOF for me. I don't think guys like Parish and Dumars should be in there either. It has become watered down.
|
|
|
|
|
Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
