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12-15-2006, 10:18 AM
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#61 (permalink)
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My Custom User Title
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston/Minneapolis
Posts: 7,930
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
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Originally Posted by Kirk64
What are his accomplishments, precisely? Never even considered the second best player at his position in the NBA. Only considered third best three times. Poor defense. No title. Basically a one-trick pony scorer. Efficient, but did not score in volume.
I give him no points for being the all-time leader in threes. That's just another shot. Like saying the best dunker ought to be in the HOF. Look at the top 20 for threes made all-time. Not a single HOFer or future HOFer on there, IMO. Ray Allen maybe. That's it.
Put him in the Hall of Very Good.
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His impact has been what he has done on the court aside from stats. Leadership, clutch, he created some (many) of the most memorable moments in NBA history. Creating everlasting rivalries. Reggie/Knicks, Reggie/Bulls. One of the greatest playoff performers of all time, one of the most memorable faces of the NBA in the 90's, and one of the greatest shooters in the history of the game. Not only that, sustained level of play, professional attitude, and game approach for almost 20 years.
HOF isn’t only about numbers, awards, and PPG, RPG or whateverPG.
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12-16-2006, 07:28 PM
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#62 (permalink)
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BasketballBoards 6th Man
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 365
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
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Originally Posted by Mike Goodman
Among players with at least 500 career 3-pt attempts, Reggie is #31 in 3p%. Of course Reggie attempted over 500 in a single season. Of the top 60 3-pt makers of all time, Reggie's within .005 of any of them.
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Again, being good at a particular shot means nothing to me. Points are points, no matter whether a dunk, three-pointer, 15-footer, whatever.
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Originally Posted by Mike Goodman
If you got this ranking from basketball-reference.com, you might be aware that the site owner has invented a measure called 'win shares'. Adding regular season performances since 1978, Reggie ranks #9. That's ahead of Bird, Magic, Drexler, Pippen, etc.
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I don't pay attention to his WS stat because it shows that Miller has many more than Kareem in less games. Please.
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Originally Posted by Mike Goodman
As far as his defense, he often covered Jordan, Iverson, etc., doing a credible (not incredible) job. At least, he made them work at both ends..
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He was considered a poor defensive player in the first half of his career. Adequate in the latter half.
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Originally Posted by Mike Goodman
If his playoff outbursts and clutch shots are 'not that big a deal' to you, then obviously you weren't a Pacer or one of many victims.
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In the context of NBA history they didn't lead to anything. Unless you are a slam dunk HOFer, you need titles. Heroics are great, but you need the ring, unless you are in the upper pantheon like Malone, Stockton, Barkley. And, again, if you are going to put Reggie in, then you have to put guys like Tim Hardaway in.
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12-17-2006, 03:20 PM
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#63 (permalink)
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BasketballBoards Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Points are points. Reggie scored over 25,000 of them.
In TS% (true shooting %), Reggie's .614 is the highest of any of any player to score as many. Next best would be Kareem, at .592.
Since 1978, Reggie played in 360 more games than Kareem did. Please read, then respond.
Reggie scored twice as many points as Tim Hardaway. In playoffs, more than 3X as many. How are these comparable?
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12-17-2006, 05:24 PM
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#64 (permalink)
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All-Star
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Braga, Portugal
Posts: 9,143
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
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Originally Posted by Mike Goodman
Points are points. Reggie scored over 25,000 of them. In TS% (true shooting %), Reggie's .614 is the highest of any of any player to score as many. Next best would be Kareem, at .592.
Since 1978, Reggie played in 360 more games than Kareem did. Please read, then respond.
Reggie scored twice as many points as Tim Hardaway. In playoffs, more than 3X as many. How are these comparable?
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Longevity only comes so far. Robert Parish is #17 in scoring all-time with 23.334pts. Who the heck cares?
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12-17-2006, 08:06 PM
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#65 (permalink)
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Player
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 742
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
I'm sure Reggie is a lock for the Hall of Fame eventually. For over a decade, he had a playoff contender built around his talents. Not too many 'pure shooters' can claim that. IMO Reggie is definitely a player who transcended his role.
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12-17-2006, 08:38 PM
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#66 (permalink)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,039
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Hall of Fame voters care Paulo. Reggie is probably a Hall of Famer, though maybe not a first ballot one. And, he deserves it more than a lot of other pure scorers who will get in more easily (Iverson, Nique, Maravich, Gervin, come to mind).
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12-18-2006, 01:13 AM
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#67 (permalink)
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MeLo aND ai=ChAMpIonShIP!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Age: 17
Posts: 4,855
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Reggie should be put into the Hall Of Fame
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12-18-2006, 04:11 AM
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#68 (permalink)
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BasketballBoards Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 33
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
Longevity doesn't mean anything, but being good in your mid-late 30s can only be better than being done at age 29.
Robert Parish entered the league at age 23, and was an allstar from age 27 to age 37. Almost every year in this interval, he was top 10 in the league in rebounding and FG%. Until age 30 he was a top shotblocker.
When your team doesn't have to worry about getting a new center for that many years, you could appreciate that. Or you could just say, "Who the heck cares?"
Well, the HOF took Parish. Not because he played a lot of years, but because he was good for a lot of years. If he played half as long, he's just Derrick Coleman or Vin Baker.
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12-18-2006, 08:37 AM
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#69 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Miami / NJ
Posts: 3,092
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
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Originally Posted by Mike Goodman
When your team doesn't have to worry about getting a new center for that many years, you could appreciate that.
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Right. I think longevity is important for this reason. Being able to play consistently and injury-free for many years adds value to a player, just as peak performance does.
If I'm buying a car, I care at least as much about whether this car will run for 10 years than I do if it has good horsepower or turning radius or whatever.
Similarly, if I'm a GM looking for a player, I want a player who can play for a long time and do it consistently. This is something that factors in to how good a plyer is.
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"Sir I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
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12-18-2006, 06:10 PM
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#70 (permalink)
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All-Star
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Braga, Portugal
Posts: 9,143
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Re: Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
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Originally Posted by Mike Goodman
Longevity doesn't mean anything, but being good in your mid-late 30s can only be better than being done at age 29.
Robert Parish entered the league at age 23, and was an allstar from age 27 to age 37. Almost every year in this interval, he was top 10 in the league in rebounding and FG%. Until age 30 he was a top shotblocker.
When your team doesn't have to worry about getting a new center for that many years, you could appreciate that. Or you could just say, "Who the heck cares?"
Well, the HOF took Parish. Not because he played a lot of years, but because he was good for a lot of years. If he played half as long, he's just Derrick Coleman or Vin Baker.
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In the last 7 years of his career, Parish didn't deliver a 15-10 season.
In the last 13 seasons of his career Robert Parish couldn't deliver an 18-10 season.
He was good in his peak, but he was never an elite player on the league.
that's why i used him as an example of why longevity sometimes doesn't matter. It's not like he was Kareem, Karl Malone or Stockton, was it? | |
Reggie Miller is not a first ballot Hall of Famer
