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**Minstrel** · 04-04-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Najee

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. What I am saying that at least Allen Iverson does have enough of a concept of defense that he at least is giving your team something on that end. Iverson and Larry Hughes are average one-on-one defenders (like the typical NBA player) who play passing lanes well enough to disrupt plays on occasion to get steals.

Steve Nash, on the other hand, doesn't give your team anything on the defensive end. Not only is Nash a poor on-the-ball defender, he shows no anticipatory skills in help defense and some of the skills that make him a crafty offensive player (namely, vision, eye-hand contact, timing and spacing) don't translate on the other side of the court.

Basically, I guess I just disagree with you that players like Ivy and Barkley were "average" on-the-ball defenders. I think they were quite poor. But I don't disagree with your larger point, that they all brought some defensive value while Nash doesn't really bring any.

BadBaronRudigor · 04-05-2007, 10:03 AM

Although defensive ratings are far less useful than offensive ones, Nash actually has a decent individual defensive rating (surprised me) and plays much better team defense than Iverson (no surprise since Iverson spells team with a capital I).

**unluckyseventeen** · 04-06-2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Najee

Some of these selections I've read for most overrated player in NBA history are dubious, to say the least. Here is my recommendation:

K.C. Jones was a decent role player, but because he played on Bill Russell's teams in college and the NBA he was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Jones was known as a solid defender, but it's hard to make a case for someone with career averages of 7.4 points, 4.3 assists and 3.5 rebounds per game while shooting .387 FG and .647 FT being considered one of the sport's greatest players.

Holy ****!?!? An intelligent post! A good response! I thought this thread din't have any. Well done.

As soon as I saw repeated posts of modern players, I considered this thread hopeless. At least one person here has decent material.

Jesus of CopyMat · 04-08-2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucketDawg

Probably Wade, his game is predacated on carrying the ball, using kamikaze travelling ninja spinning moves, and depending upon Sterns boys (a la refs) to bail him out on every possession and shoot FT's. Anybody can shoot FT's, if that is what makes you a superstar today, then so be it

Shaq. For the same reason this guy picks Wade.

swift88 · 05-24-2007, 01:26 PM

Me. Scottie Pippen, kicks him out of top 50 and put 'Nic in. Jordan at times, he's great. He owned the NBA,but he is not the best sportman of all time. Kobe is not overated, in fact he has a bunch of haters just because his game is very Mike and he wanna dethrone him. How can AI be overated, he brought a lot to the game (xover, finger roll, style trending...). IMO Lebron is overated now, I think he lost the desire to dominate. Shaq is overated, he has no game, only strength.

Bulls12 · 05-24-2007, 03:09 PM

AI is prety overated he gets a lot of steals but thats all he does on defense wait in the passing lanes. Plus look what hes done in Denver with Carmelo pretty much nothing. With those two paired together shouldn't they have gotten a little farther.

BadBaronRudigor · 05-26-2007, 08:27 AM

Looking at the players who are no longer playing who have been mentioned (just for you unlucky), they seem to break down into groups:

True greats who people think are rated with or above other true greats:

Jordan, K. Malone, Isiah, Pippen, D. Robinson

Offensive forces with no defense:

Maravich, Barkley,

Others:

Joe Barry Carroll - - not sure why he was overrated, no one liked him since the day he was drafted due to his attitude, he wasn't known as Joe Barely Cares for nothing; he was overrated at the draft but that's true of a lot of centers.

KC Jones -- good call; apparently a defensive stopper but with no offensive skills. In HOF due to riding on Bill Russell's coattails in college then pros.

Bill Bradley -- read my prior post. Big scorer at . . . well . . . Princeton. In pros he was an occasional jump shooter who was willing to play without the ball but had little explosion, little defense and was a terrible rebounder. But he was white, smart, and played for the Knicks so he is also in HOF.

Sunsfan81 · 05-26-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadBaronRudigor

KC Jones -- good call; apparently a defensive stopper but with no offensive skills. In HOF due to riding on Bill Russell's coattails in college then pros.

Bill Bradley -- read my prior post. Big scorer at . . . well . . . Princeton. In pros he was an occasional jump shooter who was willing to play without the ball but had little explosion, little defense and was a terrible rebounder. But he was white, smart, and played for the Knicks so he is also in HOF.

Frank Ramsey should be included there as well. He shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame.

jefferyball · 06-10-2007, 07:13 AM

Iam going to say Scottie Pippen because he was voted as one of the NBA's greatest players.How the hell did Pippen make the list and not Dominique Wilkins and Nique was a hell of lot better than Scottie ever was.

Najee · 06-10-2007, 08:09 AM

It seems most people's definition of "overrated" is based more on a player's contextual reputation and personal bias. For instance, Scottie Pippen is being called overrated not for the fact that he was a good player but because of the overprojection of his worth to those 1990s Chicago teams. Such projections have caused Pippen to be elevated in some people's eyes as one of the very best players in NBA history (IMO, a faulty assumption). However, it is not debatable that Pippen was an All-Star-caliber player for many years.

Maybe that was the intent of the thread, but I tried to stay away from a debatable selection. I named a player who IMO would be someone who cannot be defended by such perspective -- K.C. Jones. There is no legitimate argument that can be made why Jones as an individual is inducted in the Basketball Hall of Fame alongside the likes of Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc. Jones was never a standout or dominant player in his own right so why he is afforded the same standing as those players is indefensible.

IMO, a player like Pippen is being improperly rated by some people; a player like Jones is categorically overrated because there is no objective reason for defending his hall-of-fame status.

Duck34234 · 06-11-2007, 03:14 PM

Daniel Gibson.

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