PauloCatarino

I need peeps' imput for a new angle that i'm working on regarding my Old Basketball Thesis. So i apreciate in advance any help.

Question 1:
Who do you think is the better player? a) Hakeem or b) Duncan?

Question 2:
If you answered a), how do you explain Duncan winning twice (so far) the championships Hakeem did?

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carlos710

About the same. I think duncan will be viewed as the better player when his carrer is over, unless a major decline.

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BadBaronRudigor

peak performance, Hakeem as the better scorer and shotblocker. Leadership, Duncan . . . Hakeem had that period where he whined a lot about money. Teammates, Duncan, while Hakeem had more HOF caliber players on his roster, they weren't there long while Duncan's main core teammates have stayed around for awhile.

If I had to take one or the other to start my franchise though, I'd take Hakeem.

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Air Jordan 23

Hakeem is easily the better player.

Duncan plays in a weak era of NBA.


Some here will probably call me a hater, but I've been watching the NBA since the early/mid 80's. Seriously, the League is weak now. To be fair to Duncan, he can't help if his competition is weak, but it inflates his place in history, IMO. Put his Spurs in the NBA in the 80's or 90's and Duncan has 0 rings.

white360

got to agree with Air Jordan on this one, the competition was just alot better back then, I feel the game isn't as competitive as it used to be. And Hakeem played in the same era as Jordan, Malone and alot of really good , solid and consistent teams.

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PauloCatarino

Not surprisingly, and eventhought it's a small sample, the vast majority of voters chose Hakeem over Duncan.

I do too, and without thinking twice about it.

Competition wise, both players played in two whole different worlds. Eventhought both Hakeem and Duncan played in the Finals in their sophomore year (Hakeem with Sampson lost to the Bird-led Celtics; Duncan with D-Rob won against NY without Ewing and against a frontline composed by a washed up LJ and a Dudley/Camby tandem), their careers quickly spin in different directions: Hakeem goes to the Finals only 2 more times (and wins); the only thing stopping Duncan to go to the finals every year was a powerhouse Laker squad with Shaq and Kobe.

Now, if Hakeem is better than Duncan, what is the explanation?

1- Supporting cast: Not much of a difference if one compares players head-to-head.

2- Competition: and no, Hakeem's success didn't depend of Michael Jordan - the Bulls never played against the Rockets in the playoffs.

Could it be that the 80's and 90's had more parity between teams? That there was more parity between frnachise players?

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(...) we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender (...)

Najee

For Question 1, I have to say Tim Duncan -- and this is from someone who lists Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler and Isiah Thomas as tied for his all-time favorite player. Dream had a period in the early 1990s (1990-91 and 1992-93 seasons) where his game regressed slightly because of his relationship with Houston's management, and IMO David Robinson surpassed him. Duncan has been consistent with this play and effort his entire career.

Personally, I would take Olajuwon over Duncan.

As for Question 2, Duncan had better teammates around him longer than Dream did. Robinson was still a viable player when Duncan went to San Antonio, and effective personnel decisions led to finding gems like Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker low in the NBA draft.

Dream had the star-crossed Ralph Sampson for two healthy seasons and had to co-exist with Joe Barry Carroll occupying the same spot on the floor and Sleepy Floyd looking for his shot. The 1994 team won the Finals in arguably the worst era of NBA play I've ever seen. Players like Clyde Drexler and Charles Barkley arrived at the end of their primes.

1 Penny

Hakeem Olajuwon is no doubt better in every aspect.

I love Tim Duncan and respect him a lot.

But Hakeem would dominate in today's league more so than Tim Duncan is currently.

I was a David Robinson fan, and still am... always hated Hakeem because Hakeem always embarassed him. Anyways, today watching Hakeem's games... it becomes so much more apparent that he is the most talented and skilled 7 footer of all time.

Hakeem has a very quick spin move, that he can use any time, and he doesnt do it off dribbling with his back turned, he can do it off an interior pass immediately, very skillfully, most centers today or any other centers for that matter will not be able to do this move as easily as Hakeem does.
Hakeem , when he posts up a taller more athletic center, which is rare, but David Robinson, Shaq etc comes to mind, anyways, he can make them redundant in terms of defending him, by his footwork. He is very unpredictable wth his foot work and is the most skilled pivot center or player I've seen. He will usually pin the defender to one side by pivoting his feet towards a certain direction, then he goes for his turn around baby hook.. not your usual baby hook, he spins the other way, making it impossible for the defender to challenge it without fouling him. If the defender can somehow predict this move, Hakeem is skilled enough and smart enough not to lift his pivot foot so he can quickly spin the other way and finish either a fade away at the center of the paint or an up and under finger roll, again so amazingly skilled.
He has an automatic mid range, he will nail that shot.. so you cannot just leave him open to protect the interior. And if you double him, he can still and DID split the defense to find the open man... a lot of elite centers are good at this but Hakeem in terms of skill does it as if he was a small forward, so quick and as I said, unpredictable..

Defense wise, he is similar to Tim Duncan, that he always has his blocking hand up and ready to alter the shooter, but... he is so much quicker than Duncan and most centers, that half the time he strips his opponent mid way to their offense move. If the offense player manages to protect the ball from being stripped, Hakeem will just block him as he has an incredible reaction time.. as most shot blockers do.
Just on a different page and level as most big men, David Robinson is the only other player who is as gifted as Hakeem defensive wise, but Hakeem's unpredictable offense gave him fits.

Rebounding wise, Hakeem always had terrific center of gravity, so he boxes out as well as anyone, but his quickness and instinct is better than most. What else is their to say he is one of the best rebounders of all time.

We all know how Duncan is as we watch him now.. I admit I didnt appreciate Hakeem back then, but lately I've just been watching him a lot and its funny, when you're young you only care about the fancy and exciting stuff.. but man, Hakeem was such an amazing player..

if we had to do that draft again, I'd pick him over Jordan 10 out of 10 times, Jordan is the GOAT i think, but with Hakeem, he is twice easier to start a franchise with as he is a big man after all.

Balzac

I'm going with Hakeem as well. As stated above, Hakeem had a lot more competition at the C. While Duncan is a solid scorer and defender, Hakeem is an even better scorer and shot blocker. Duncan's go-to moves may be the mid-range bank shot or the hook in the paint, but neither of them could match the dream shake.

different_13

Wow:
(points/rebounds/assists/blocks/steals/fouls/TO)

21.8/11.9/3.2/2.5/0.8/2.7/2.9
.509FG%, .680FT% (7.5 attempts per game), .554TS%, 25.2 PER


21.8/11.1/2.5/3.1/1.7/3.5/3.0
.512FG%, .712FT% (6.2 attempts per game), .553TS%, 23.6 PER


Now obviously there's 2 stats that clearly point out who is who, but I was surprised by those stats.

Perhaps this is because I've never seen Dream play, but I always put him above Duncan.
Now obviously level of competition and the ways rules are interpreted have changed, but I didn't realise Duncan is seemingly on par with Hakeem.

It's funny - bball-reference.com has them both listed at 7'0.
Now, is it the case that:
Duncan actually is 7'0 but is listed as shorter because he doesn't want to play C;
Hakeem is actually more like 6'10, 6'11 but is listed as 7'0 because he wanted to play C;
Duncan is actually 6.10, 6'11 ish and bbal-reference just have it wrong;
or some other explanation..

Don't they use the measurements from when they were drafted (in shoes, probably) ?


I can't answer question 1.
But question 2 is likely down to the competiveness of the league, as well as rule changes - do you think Parker and Manu could drive like that in the mid-90's?
You can see Duncan gets more FT attempts per game - refs are calling more fouls these days? (if so, it's imperssive that Duncan fouls less than Hakeem)

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