Thread Tools

Display Modes

RollWithEm · 04-02-2008, 02:53 PM

The next tasty match-up I have for your debating pleasure is a match-up of arguably the 2 best forwards to ever play the game. Duncan’s 1997 squad squares off against Larry Bird’s 78ers in this 3/6 match-up in the Jay Williams portion of the bracket.

(3) 1997
G Chauncey Billups
G Antonio Daniels – 2004 – 59.6 TS%, 35.6 Ast Rate, over a 4:1 A/TO ratio
F Tracy McGrady
F Keith Van Horn – 1999 – 19.6 PER, 22 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 1.3 BPG
C Tim Duncan
-------------------------------------
G Brevin Knight – 2005 – 41.9 Ast Rate
G Bobby Jackson
G Derek Anderson – 2001 – 15.5 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 4 APG
F Stephen Jackson
F Tim Thomas
F Danny Fortson – 2000 – 24.4 Reb Rate
C Mark Blount – 2004 – 60.1 TS%

Vs.

(6) 1978
G Maurice Cheeks – 1983 – 34.5 Ast Rate
G Reggie Theus
G Michael Ray Richardson – 1980 – 15.3 PPG, 10.1 APG, 6.6 RPG, 3.2 SPG
F Larry Bird
C Mychal Thompson – 1982 – 19.2 PER, 16.4 Reb Rate
-------------------------------------
G Phil Ford – 1981 – 31.1 Ast Rate
G Freeman Williams – 1981 – 20.2 PER
G Gerald Henderson – 1986 – 29.2 Ast Rate
F Purvis Short – 1986 – 19.1 PER, 28 PPG, 5 RPG
F Mike Mitchell – 1980 – 19.1 PER
C Jerome Whitehead – 1982 – 17.9 Reb Rate
C Dave Corzine – 1981 – 17.7 Reb Rate

I’ll be interested to read where people go with this one because I’m undecided on my take right now.

PauloCatarino · 04-02-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollWithEm

The next tasty match-up I have for your debating pleasure is a match-up of arguably the 2 best forwards to ever play the game. Duncan’s 1997 squad squares off against Larry Bird’s 78ers in this 3/6 match-up in the Jay Williams portion of the bracket.

(3) 1997
G Chauncey Billups
G Antonio Daniels – 2004 – 59.6 TS%, 35.6 Ast Rate, over a 4:1 A/TO ratio
F Tracy McGrady
F Keith Van Horn – 1999 – 19.6 PER, 22 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 1.3 BPG
C Tim Duncan
-------------------------------------
G Brevin Knight – 2005 – 41.9 Ast Rate
G Bobby Jackson
G Derek Anderson – 2001 – 15.5 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 4 APG
F Stephen Jackson
F Tim Thomas
F Danny Fortson – 2000 – 24.4 Reb Rate
C Mark Blount – 2004 – 60.1 TS%

Vs.

(6) 1978
G Maurice Cheeks – 1983 – 34.5 Ast Rate
G Reggie Theus
G Michael Ray Richardson – 1980 – 15.3 PPG, 10.1 APG, 6.6 RPG, 3.2 SPG
F Larry Bird
C Mychal Thompson – 1982 – 19.2 PER, 16.4 Reb Rate
-------------------------------------
G Phil Ford – 1981 – 31.1 Ast Rate
G Freeman Williams – 1981 – 20.2 PER
G Gerald Henderson – 1986 – 29.2 Ast Rate
F Purvis Short – 1986 – 19.1 PER, 28 PPG, 5 RPG
F Mike Mitchell – 1980 – 19.1 PER
C Jerome Whitehead – 1982 – 17.9 Reb Rate
C Dave Corzine – 1981 – 17.7 Reb Rate

I’ll be interested to read where people go with this one because I’m undecided on my take right now.

There is no way i will ever vote against a team sporting Larry Joe Bird. No way.

BadBaronRudigor · 04-02-2008, 08:33 PM

No PG shortages in this one. I'd be starting Purvis Short or Mike Mitchell over Reggie Theus in this one; you don't need yet another creator with the ball when you already have Cheeks, Richardson, and Bird on the floor; Short and Mitchell were both great catch and shoot guys who are finishers. For better size to counter that weak 4, I'd probably also start Stephan Jackson at the 3 moving McGrady back to the 2 and have Jackson and/or McGrady on Bird with Van Horn or Thomas on Short/Mitchell despite the post-up issues.

So
Duncan/Van Horn/S.Jackson/McGrady/Billups (B.Jackson/T.Thomas/Fortson)
v.
M.Thomson/Bird/Mitchell/Richardson/Cheeks (Ford/Theus/Short/Corzine)

Who is the more dominant, peak Duncan or peak Bird . . . Duncan has won more titles with less support and is a defensive keystone, Bird is the more statistically dominant player. Looking at the second prime players, McGrady is the 3rd best player on the floor but has never played his best when Yao is healthy it seems, Billups is terrific and underrated; Richardson was good but not consistent, Cheeks consistent but not a dominator, Short/Mitchell better than whoever the 97 squad puts out there. Tough matchup, but where both squads have this much offensive talent I go with the better defensive squad and that's whichever team Tim Duncan plays for. 97 should win.

kflo · 04-03-2008, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollWithEm

The next tasty match-up I have for your debating pleasure is a match-up of arguably the 2 best forwards to ever play the game. Duncan’s 1997 squad squares off against Larry Bird’s 78ers in this 3/6 match-up in the Jay Williams portion of the bracket.

(3) 1997
G Chauncey Billups
G Antonio Daniels – 2004 – 59.6 TS%, 35.6 Ast Rate, over a 4:1 A/TO ratio
F Tracy McGrady
F Keith Van Horn – 1999 – 19.6 PER, 22 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 1.3 BPG
C Tim Duncan
-------------------------------------
G Brevin Knight – 2005 – 41.9 Ast Rate
G Bobby Jackson
G Derek Anderson – 2001 – 15.5 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 4 APG
F Stephen Jackson
F Tim Thomas
F Danny Fortson – 2000 – 24.4 Reb Rate
C Mark Blount – 2004 – 60.1 TS%

Vs.

(6) 1978
G Maurice Cheeks – 1983 – 34.5 Ast Rate
G Reggie Theus
G Michael Ray Richardson – 1980 – 15.3 PPG, 10.1 APG, 6.6 RPG, 3.2 SPG
F Larry Bird
C Mychal Thompson – 1982 – 19.2 PER, 16.4 Reb Rate
-------------------------------------
G Phil Ford – 1981 – 31.1 Ast Rate
G Freeman Williams – 1981 – 20.2 PER
G Gerald Henderson – 1986 – 29.2 Ast Rate
F Purvis Short – 1986 – 19.1 PER, 28 PPG, 5 RPG
F Mike Mitchell – 1980 – 19.1 PER
C Jerome Whitehead – 1982 – 17.9 Reb Rate
C Dave Corzine – 1981 – 17.7 Reb Rate

I’ll be interested to read where people go with this one because I’m undecided on my take right now.

on the '97 team i'd also move tmac to the 2, and start jackson at the 3. pretty compelling matchup with the '78 teams perimeter trio of cheeks and richardson in the backcourt with either reggie, mitchell or purvis at the 3. then the frontcourt features bird and duncan, supported by thompson and van horn. here i'd probably say '78 has the deeper talent. defensively, duncan is the anchor for the '97 team, but the '78 team has the advantage at the 1, 2 and 4. this is a tight matchup. offensively, the '78 team can really move the ball, and their forward combo can fill it up. and defensively, i think they can create some havoc for billups and tmac. at the end of the day, i think bird has the biggest mismatch, and that tilts it to '78. i'm not picking them because bird can't be beat, just that his matchup is more favorable for his team, and everything else is so close.

RollWithEm · 04-07-2008, 12:09 PM

This is a really tough match-up to call. It’s probably one of the toughest in the whole first round of this tournament. Before I get started with my analysis, let me respond to the people who think Stephen Jackson and/or Purvis Short should start for their respective teams. I think most people think that the best players who will play the most minutes should definitely be the starters. I don’t necessarily agree with this. Without knowing who the coaches are for these teams, we cannot adequately predict rotations. Short might well play more minutes than Theus, and Jackson might well play more than Daniels. I just thought the 97 team could use Daniels’ shooting, quickness, and passing ability more than Jackson’s toughness and ability to defend bigger players in the starting line-up. This would change if Short were starting for the 78 squad, though. The 97ers would need Jackson to put on Bird and T-Mac to play Purvis. I agree.

In terms of point guard play, Chauncey Billups is the best player on either team, but the 78 squad is far deeper. Cheeks, Ford, Freeman, Richardson, Henderson, and maybe even Theus could run the point for this team. Throw in Bird’s wizardry and you have an extremely adept passing team. Billups’ prime propensity for taking opposing point guards down into the paint and getting them into foul trouble might just be negated by the unparalleled depth of this 1978 team at that position.

When you look at wing players, McGrady, Jackson, and Daniels are superior defensively in their primes to the combination of Purvis, Freeman, Richardson, and Theus. Offensively, arguments can be made for both sides. McGrady is the highest volume scorer of the bunch, but the 78 group features some high efficiency point-producers.

The pure shooting advantage would have to go to the 1978 crew by a small margin, with Bird pushing them over the top. The post play advantage would be clearly in favor of Tim Duncan offensively and defensively. This advantage shouldn’t be understated. Duncan would absolutely own the paint in this game. Bird would do what Bird does despite potentially being bothered by quicker, longer defenders like Jackson, McGrady, and even Thomas. In fact, all three of them have given Dirk numerous problems during his career. Bird’s game is obviously more diverse and creative than Nowitzki’s, but don’t think Bird would just dominate this trio.

If this game comes down to clutch play, which it likely will, it doesn’t get much better than Bird. Don’t sleep on the combination of Billups/Duncan, though. That pick-and-roll game would arguably rival the two-man ball between Michael Ray and Larry Legend down the stretch.

I’m really torn in this one. Bird is the best player on either team, but I think the 1997 team has the second best player and 3 of the top 5 players. Cheeks and Bird were consistent winners throughout their careers, but Billups and Duncan certainly have shown themselves to perform extremely well under pressure. I guess if you twisted my arm, I’d have to go with 1997 by a nose. In reality, though, it’s too tough too call for me.

Najee · 04-08-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PauloCatarino

There is no way i will ever vote against a team sporting Larry Joe Bird. No way.

Larry Bird was drafted in 1978 but did not play until the 1979-80 season. Personally, I feel Bird should be part of the rookie class with which he played, not with which he was drafted (similar to David Robinson).

RollWithEm · 04-09-2008, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Najee

Larry Bird was drafted in 1978 but did not play until the 1979-80 season. Personally, I feel Bird should be part of the rookie class with which he played, not with which he was drafted (similar to David Robinson).

This is a "Draft Class" tournament not a "Rookie Class" tournament.

Najee · 04-10-2008, 11:10 AM

Once again, I will pick my own lineup because of the originator's lack of context. His Class of '78 has (IMO) a very noticable omission -- Michael Cooper, the versatile sixth man of the '80s Showtime Lakers who was voted to the NBA All-Defensive team eight times in his career.

CLASS OF 1978:

PG: Maurice Cheeks
SG: Micheal Ray Richardson
SF: Mike Mitchell
PF: Larry Bird
C: Mychal Thompson

BENCH: Michael Cooper, Wayne Cooper, Dave Corzine, Phil Ford, John Long, Purvis Short and Reggie Theus.

CLASS OF 1997:
PG: Chauncey Billups
SG: Tracy McGrady
SF: Stephen Jackson
PF: Keith van Horn
C: Tim Duncan

BENCH: Derek Anderson, Mark Blount, Antonio Daniels, Danny Fortson, Brevin Knight, Bobby Jackson, Tim Thomas.

Both teams are rather on the small side, but the Class of '97 seems to be at the disadvantage despite Duncan. The only other banger on the team is Fortson, who is an undersized goon. Otherwise, this will be a classic matchup -- one on which I will give my opinion later.

Najee · 04-10-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollWithEm

(6) 1978
G Maurice Cheeks – 1983 – 34.5 Ast Rate
G Reggie Theus
G Michael Ray Richardson – 1980 – 15.3 PPG, 10.1 APG, 6.6 RPG, 3.2 SPG
F Larry Bird
C Mychal Thompson – 1982 – 19.2 PER, 16.4 Reb Rate
-------------------------------------
G Phil Ford – 1981 – 31.1 Ast Rate
G Freeman Williams – 1981 – 20.2 PER
G Gerald Henderson – 1986 – 29.2 Ast Rate
F Purvis Short – 1986 – 19.1 PER, 28 PPG, 5 RPG
F Mike Mitchell – 1980 – 19.1 PER
C Jerome Whitehead – 1982 – 17.9 Reb Rate
C Dave Corzine – 1981 – 17.7 Reb Rate

I’ll be interested to read where people go with this one because I’m undecided on my take right now.

Before the originator tries to do something cute, this is a reminder (s)he put together a team that DIDN'T have Michael Cooper among the group.

Care to explain what Freeman Williams, Jerome Whitehead, Gerald Henderson and Dave Corzine have done to make you choose them over Coop? After all, Coop was only one of the best sixth men and perimeter defenders in NBA history who was named to eight NBA All-Defensive teams.

Thread Tools Display Modes

Thread Tools

Display Modes