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RollWithEm · 04-18-2008, 06:28 AM

I think it’s only fair that the next match-up I’m unveiling involves the 1986 team that was casted out of the Sam Bowie region due to a roster shake up. The new 4/5 match-up in the Len Bias region should be a pretty good one. As usual, I’ll post the objective and subjective teams.

(4) 1986
G Mark Price
G Ron Harper
F Dennis Rodman
C Brad Daugherty
C Arvydas Sabonis
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G Jeff Hornacek
G Scott Skiles
G Drazen Petrovic
G Dell Curry
F Walter Berry
F John Williams
C Roy Tarpley

I think the go to guy on this team is clearly going to be Walter Berry. He is an absolute beast of a player whose impact on a game like this cannot be understated… but anyway. Here’s what the team would look like based on my opinion.

PG Mark Price
SG Ron Harper
SF Chuck Person
PF Dennis Rodman
C Brad Daugherty
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G Scott Skiles
G Jeff Hornacek
G Drazen Petrovic
G Dell Curry
F Johnny Newman
F Otis Smith
C Arvydas Sabonis

This team has no lack of shooting, playmaking, inside scoring, or rebounding. It’s an interesting squad, indeed, with 1996-level Sabonis on board. Just imagine how good they could be if they actually got prime-level Sabonis that was stashed oversees.

VS

(5) 1989
G Tim Hardaway
G Dana Barros
F Pervis Ellison
F Shawn Kemp
C Vlade Divac
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G Mookie Blaylock
G Nick Anderson
G Pooh Richardson
G Sherman Douglas
F Glen Rice
F Clifford Robinson
C Dino Radja

This is an interesting squad, as well. They have a wide array of talents. My team would probably look like this.

PG Tim Hardaway
SG Mookie Blaylock
SF Glen Rice
PF Shawn Kemp
C Vlade Divac
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G Dana Barros
G Nick Anderson
F Pervis Ellison
F Clifford Robinson
F Sean Elliot
F Danny Ferry
C Dino Radja

I just think Elliot and Ferry bring more to the table that’s missing from this team than do Pooh and Sherman. This team is actually pretty deep for a 5-seed. I see Uncle Cliffy as the 6th man (playing either forward spot or center). Pervis, Elliot, and Anderson would probably round out my 9-man rotation. Barros would be the third PG, Ferry would be the 5th wing, and Radja would be the 4th big. What do you think would happen?

BadBaronRudigor · 04-18-2008, 01:11 PM

I'd probably start Nick Anderson ahead of Mookie, Mookie and Timmy were both little guys under 6-1, as good defensively as Mookie was, they get overpowered. Mookie, Elliot and a reasonably healthy Pervis (well, he had one good year) would be my top 3 off the bench with Uncle Cliffy in for situational substitutions.

In terms of breakdowns it would be very interesting:

Inside play -- Daugherty and Kemp are both good scorers, Rodman and Vlade good defenders, Sabonis would play a role like Bill Walton did with the Celtics . Edge to 86 assuming everyone healthy (and Ellison is even more fragile than Sabos though 89 has MUCH better depth).

Wing/Point scoring -- Price and Person are great outside scorers, Harper was a nice slasher; similarly Hardaway and Rice were outside shooters, Nick Anderson the slasher/post up wing, Hornacek is the best bench scorer on either team. Edge to Price's 86 team, he and Hornacek were better shooters than Hardaway/Mookie and the wings are pretty close.

Playmaking -- Hardaway is the best playmaker on either team, Price and Hornacek (and Skiles) are the next two, the centers on both teams are excellent passers, particularly Sabonis. Edge 86.

Rebounding -- Rodman is clearly the big man here. Edge 86.

Defense -- Rodman and Mookie Blaylock are the stoppers. Vlade (the mad flopper) and Ellison were also good defenders whereas Daugherty and Sabonis were average. No one else stands out, maybe a slight edge to 89.

Depth -- There were two John Williamses that started in 86-87. Hot Rod Williams was a very solid big man for Cleveland, "Hot Plate" Williams was a talented 3-4 type forward for Washington who couldn't keep his weight under control but was a good young reserve during his early career. I had to look up Otis Smith, he was a G-F, pretty forgettable. Sabonis, Hot Rod, Curry or Drazen, Hornacek, and Skiles is a pretty nice bench (with the other John Williams and Newman at the 11-12 since there's no need for another pure shooter). The 89 team is deeper, particuarly in big men but doesn't have Sabonis's star power. I'd give the edge to 86.

Intangibles -- Rodman, Tarpley (if he is on the team which I wouldn't do personally), Hot Plate, Drazen . . . these are some serious flakes. Neither team has guys who were known for stepping up in the clutch (ok, Sabas and Drazen in Europe, Ellison in college). Slight edge to the team with less flakes, 89.

Still, overall, the 86 team has more star power and slight edges in most areas. Edge 86. Without Sabonis off the bench, I give it to 89 though, this was a close matchup.

Najee · 04-18-2008, 06:55 PM

CLASS OF 1986:

PG: Mark Price
SG: Ron Harper
SF: Chuck Person
PF: Dennis Rodman
C: Brad Daugherty

BENCH: Dell Curry, Jeff Hornacek, Johnny Newman, Drazen Petrovic, John Salley, Arvydas Sabonis and Scott Skiles.

I came very close to choosing Kevin Duckworth, a two-time All-Star who was the starting center on the Portland teams that went to three consecutive Western Conference finals and appeared in the '90 and '92 Finals. But with the addition of Sabonis, he was very repetitive. Instead, I chose Salley, a seven-foot power forward known for his defense who gives the Class of '86 another player at that position.

CLASS OF 1989:

PG: Tim Hardaway
SG: Nick Anderson
SF: Glen Rice
PF: Shawn Kemp
C: Vlade Divac

BENCH: Dana Barros, Mookie Blaylock, Chucky Brown, Sherman Douglas, Sean Elliott, George McCloud and Cliff Robinson.

Man, these two teams are built similarly. Both benches are guard-heavy and sport plenty of three-point scorers and perimeter bombers ('86 - Person, Petrovic, Price, Hornacek, Curry; '89 - Rice, Barros, Blaylock, McCloud, Hardaway). There are players with similar strengths (Rice and Person, Divac and Sabonis). The Rodman-Kemp matchup should be a classic. My prediction will come later.

RollWithEm · 04-21-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Najee

CLASS OF 1986:
I came very close to choosing Kevin Duckworth, a two-time All-Star who was the starting center on the Portland teams that went to three consecutive Western Conference finals and appeared in the '90 and '92 Finals. But with the addition of Sabonis, he was very repetitive. Instead, I chose Salley, a seven-foot power forward known for his defense who gives the Class of '86 another player at that position.

I can go along with that. Salley was definitely an impact player defensively during his career. He’d bolster this bench.

Quote:

CLASS OF 1989:

PG: Tim Hardaway
SG: Nick Anderson
SF: Glen Rice
PF: Shawn Kemp
C: Vlade Divac

BENCH: Dana Barros, Mookie Blaylock, Chucky Brown, Sherman Douglas, Sean Elliott, George McCloud and Cliff Robinson.

I can see why you want to start Nick Anderson. It’s generally hard to defend consistently when you start 2 small guards. I can even see why you want to include McCloud. He had some solid scoring seasons, and he’ll help this team by spreading the floor.

But Najee… Chucky Brown? Did you put him on your team just to see if I was paying attention? Was this a test? You’re always talking about “fraudulent numbers” and looking at the entirety of someone’s career. Chucky only played over 1500 minutes one season in his whole career. The esteemed Walter Berry accomplished that goal twice. I understand needing experienced role players on your bench, but this is a bit excessive. At Chucky’s absolute apex in the league, he was a scrub. I’d take Danny Ferry, Pervis Ellison, Dino Radja, or even Blue Edwards from that draft class long before I considered Chucky Brown. Wait… you’re joking, right? Are you just messing around?

Najee · 04-22-2008, 05:54 PM

The Class of '89 was a thin group upfront. The difference between Chucky Brown and Danny Ferry was that Ferry was drafted No. 2 overall. Brown pretty much was as good as he was expected to be; Ferry was a bust.

I couldn't pick Pervis Ellison and reward him for having an injury-ravaged. Ellison had two good years in Washington.

I will change Brown and install Dino Radja. Radja had statistically four decent to good seasons and mysteriously was out of the league. But you're right, he's better than Brown.

Najee · 04-24-2008, 05:35 PM

I really struggled with this one, because these teams look so much alike. But I think it comes down to which question: Which Tim Hardaway do I get? If it's the Miami version (tough player, more of an outside shooter), I get a good player. If I'm choosing, it's the Golden State Haradaway, the one who was an ankle-breaking, one-on-one force on the wing before his knee surgery.

That said, the Class of '86 is going to have a hard time stopping the UTEP Two-Step. Mark Price was a poor defender and Scott Skiles was marginally better. Drazen Petrovic? Forget it. The best bet is maybe have Ron Harper guard Hardaway, but then the six-foot Price is guarding the muscular 6-6 Nick Anderson or the sleek 6-8 Sean Elliott (a small forward who can play shooting guard). Likely, Jeff Hornacek will have to play more point guard than usual.

As good as the '86 gang is with outside shooting, the Class of '89 is a little deeper and more explosive. Rice and Hardaway are capable of going for 40. Dana Barros was accurate and explosive (while Price is more consistent). George McCloud and Chuck Person are even.

The Class of '86 is a better interior defensive team. I feel Shawn Kemp will score on some explosive dunks, but Dennis Rodman in his prime is going to frustrate the Reign Man. John Salley also can come in to spell Rodman. Also, Kemp was notorious for picking up silly fouls; I can see him and Rodman getting technicals and one of them fouling out. The '86 unit also have the two-for-one advantage in centers.

This one will be close, but if I'm choosing the pre-ACL tear Hardaway that may be enough to tilt the battle. I feel Rodman will get the best of Kemp, but unfortunately he and Salley are not enough offensive threats to match him. Everything else is a wash.

FINAL SCORE: Class of '89 112, Class of '86 109.

RollWithEm · 04-28-2008, 02:27 PM

First of all, the premise behind this tournament is that each player is at their own peak prime level when this is taking place. If you’re wondering which Tim Hardaway you’re going to get, the answer is Tim Hardaway at the best level he ever played at in his NBA career.

With that being said, the PG match-up is a great one in this game. I like Price’s consistency a little more than Hardaway’s streakiness, but Mookie and Barros on the bench gives 1989 ridiculous depth. Mookie would probably do a pretty good job of disrupting Price and Skiles in this game.

At SG, the 1986 team has all the depth. Harper/Horny/Drazen/Curry is a deep group of shooters. Anderson/Mookie doesn’t quite measure up. Although, Mookie could be successful guarding Curry or Hornacek despite his small stature because he would constantly bother their dribble. They’d have to rely on only catch-and-shoot play when he was guarding them. Still, 86 has the decided advantage at this position.

At SF, Person/Newman is a talented duo that’s not quite as deep as Rice/Elliot/Ferry. If you look at the wing players in their entirety on both teams, these groups are pretty evenly matched. 1986 is just a little out-sized.

The PF match-ups are perhaps the most compelling in the whole game, IMO. The defensive group of Rodman/Salley against the offensive grouping of Kemp/Cliffy/Ellison is quite compelling. Both Rodman and Salley did decent jobs in their careers of bothering Kemp. Even in his prime, The Reign Man had a tendency to gravitate too much to the perimeter when he faced tough defenders down low. Can Rodman’s rebounding advantage outweigh the perimeter game of Robinson? Can Kemp’s athleticism account for Salley’s toughness?

With all of the other match-ups being so hotly contested, I think this game will come down to pivot play. I’m as big a fan of Divac’s game as anyone you’ll talk to, but the 1986 team is too good down low. Daugherty/Sabas is the perfect 1-2 combo to devastate this 1989 team. Neither Divac nor Radja would feel comfortable guarding Sabonis on the perimeter. Divac would play solid defense on Daugherty, but Daugherty would return the favor on the other end. If you call those two a wash, I think Sabas’ distinct advantage in size and skill would push 1986 over the top.

So, I’m going with the 1986 team’s overall versatility to advance.

BadBaronRudigor · 04-28-2008, 03:54 PM

Just out of curiousity, how is Pervis Ellison being put at SF. He was basically a perpetually injured poor man's Hakeem Olujawon. A post up center with PF size that relied on athleticism and skills to overcome bigger stronger players. He could play PF I assume, he never had anything resembling a SF type skill set.

RollWithEm · 04-29-2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadBaronRudigor

Just out of curiousity, how is Pervis Ellison being put at SF. He was basically a perpetually injured poor man's Hakeem Olujawon. A post up center with PF size that relied on athleticism and skills to overcome bigger stronger players. He could play PF I assume, he never had anything resembling a SF type skill set.

That was merely a typo. I was rushing through that post. It has been corrected.

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