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Old 12-18-2010, 08:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Kevin Love versus historical greats

-Take away Rodman's rebounding and he's basically Bruce Bowen.

-Love could be like a Laimbeer and McHale on a title team. 2nd or 3rd option. You even agreed he plays like Laimbeer.

-If you put McHale on a roster like the Wolves current roster you think they'd be great? lol ok.

-I retracted the Malone comments. I admittely went overboard.

-Kareem was better than Malone.


I don't see how any of those a 'ridiculous ramblings'.

Your the one who got into the picture posting game to begin with.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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To quote a relative: "Is You SERIOUS?!?!"

It shows you have no idea of evaluating players. By most accounts, those are ridiculous ramblings.

1.) Bruce Bowen wasn't a scrub. He was a top-of-the-line defender. Dennis Rodman without the rebounding acumen was an elite defender, even better than Bowen. Scrubs are guys fighting for 10-day contracts, not perennial all-NBA Defensive players.

2.) Bill Laimbeer was the fourth- or fifth-best player on the Pistons "Bad Boys" teams, depending on various stages of the team's runs.

3.) Kevin McHale (a person I actually saw play) was an all-NBA player in his prime. He was more like Kevin Garnett's all-NBA days; McHale's early career was actually undersold statistically because he was originally the sixth man on Boston's teams.

4.) Moses Malone was arguably the best player in the NBA from 1978-79 through 1982-83. Kevin Love is nowhere close to that kind of regard.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Would you rather be a Boston fan or a Portland fan?

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Originally Posted by zagsfan20 View Post
-
Quote:
Take away Rodman's rebounding and he's basically Bruce Bowen.
I want to get paid for this - that's my line

Quote:
-Love could be like a Laimbeer and McHale on a title team. 2nd or 3rd option. You even agreed he plays like Laimbeer.
McHale again? did you learn nothing from the previous debacle?

Quote:
-If you put McHale on a roster like the Wolves current roster you think they'd be great? lol ok.
he would score about 26 ppg with fg% of about 55% maybe more - there arent post players like him anymore - he would feast on the bigs that are playing these days - just feast

Quote:
-I retracted the Malone comments. I admittely went overboard.
but here you are back with the McHale comments recidivist

Quote:
-Kareem was better than Malone.
you could make a fairly sound argument for Kareem being the best player ever - GOAT - so what's your point?
Quote:
I don't see how any of those a 'ridiculous ramblings'.
really because - some of them are right here

Quote:
Your the one who got into the picture posting game to begin with.
you're as in you are - and ps Oden's ceiling was never much more than Mutombo with few more points

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Old 12-18-2010, 08:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

In case you missed it, some of zagsfan's ridiculous ramblings:

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Originally Posted by zagsfan20 View Post
Take away (Dennis) Rodman's rebounding and he's a scrub. Take away Love's rebounding and he's still putting up 20 pts.
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Originally Posted by zagsfan20 View Post
(Kevin Love is) more like the Kevin McHale or Laimbeer on a title team. But, if Pippen and Kobe comparison floats your boat than so be it.
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Originally Posted by zagsfan20 View Post
You put (Kevin) McHale on a team with a roster similar to the Wolves and I don't think they would make the playoffs. McHale wasn't the type that could carry the scoring load. He worked well in combination with other greats like Bird and Parrish. He was a great 2nd option type. Similar to Love.

... I hold McHale in the same breath as a player like (James) Worthy. Good system players, but if they were asked to carry a load and be the best player on a team, that team would struggle.
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(Kevin Love) is on a Moses Malone type level in my mind. Again, a solid 2nd option on a championship level team. Same level as (Bill) Laimbeer, (Kevin) McHale, (Richard) Hamilton, (James) Worthy and such.
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Moses Malone is as good as a prime Kareem? This is news to me. I think from an offensive standpoint Love has more depth to his game than Malone did. ...

Defensively they both weren't that good. Thats where the comparison draws from.

Love at 22 is without a doubt a better player than Malone was at the same age.
I also recall zagsfan20 was looking at PER to justify his equally idiotic stance that Kevin Love was on the same level as MVP-level Moses Malone and Kevin McHale. He can't come back with something factual, particularly when he's been labeled as someone who has no actual knowledge and ability to discern talent.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

Personally, I think that you compare past players to present by looking how each stands relative to his peers.

McHale was obviously better than Love. He was the best PF in the league for a couple years before Barkley and Malone surpassed him. Love compared to his peers is behind a good six or seven guys right now.

My top five PF's are:

1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. Garnett
4. Malone (Karl)
5. McHale

I penalize Hayes because he played too much of his career pre-merger and I don't count Moses as a PF.
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Personally, I think that you compare past players to present by looking how each stands relative to his peers.

McHale was obviously better than Love. He was the best PF in the league for a couple years before Barkley and Malone surpassed him. Love compared to his peers is behind a good six or seven guys right now.

My top five PF's are:

1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. Garnett
4. Malone (Karl)
5. McHale

I penalize Hayes because he played too much of his career pre-merger and I don't count Moses as a PF.
I penalize Hayes because Im not a big fan of low efficiency high volume bigs (like for instance Kevin Love)

maybe Hayes is a good cognate for Love - except of course Hayes was good defensively and Love? well he's on the court while defense is being played around him
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

You can make a case that Kevin McHale was the best power forward in the NBA from 1983-84 through 1986-87. Some of his numbers were impacted by being the sixth man in Boston, mostly because the Celtics wanted to create an even greater mismatch when he came in the game.

I'll have to look back, but the only ones I would consider on his level in 1983-84 would be someone like Buck Williams, but Williams wasn't quite the offensive nightmare McHale was. McHale also was a more versatile defender. Dan Roundfield maybe, but he didn't have the length McHale had nor the size. The same holds true for Maurice Lucas.

BTW, Moses Malone was primarily known as center. He played power forward early in his career as a teen-ager, but he was moved to center once he filled out.
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

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I penalize Hayes because Im not a big fan of low efficiency high volume bigs (like for instance Kevin Love)

maybe Hayes is a good cognate for Love - except of course Hayes was good defensively and Love? well he's on the court while defense is being played around him
Nah, that's an insult to Elvin Hayes. Kevin Love is nowhere near the scorer the Big E was and Hayes was a much better defender. Love is more like a Bill Laimbeer/Brad Miller hybrid without the defense.
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

It's really sad that you're serious about this ****. If this was a gimmick it'd be hilarious, but seriously comparing Kevin Love to anything above roleplayers is just pathetic. Is this guy even the best player on the one of the worst teams in the league? Maybe, but Beasley is a similarly dime a dozen type player who makes a minimal impact on a team's success.

People who worship numbers without context are the worst type of tool. Love is literally nothing except numbers and rebounding numbers aren't all that important in a vacuum. There are more rebounds in basketball statistics than anything else except missed field goals...Love gets those too.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

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Nah, that's an insult to Elvin Hayes. Kevin Love is nowhere near the scorer the Big E was and Hayes was a much better defender. Love is more like a Bill Laimbeer/Brad Miller hybrid without the defense.
Miller has averaged 7 rebounds for his career. Not really sure what they have in common.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

Love had a nice 43 and 17 tonight.
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

I'm not really sure I started this thread either.
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

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Miller has averaged 7 rebounds for his career. Not really sure what they have in common.
Actually, Brad Miller has averaged 7.4 rebounds per game for his career. The numbers are higher when looking at his years as a starter, most notably in Sacramento.

Other than that, Miller is known for being a good outside shooter for a big man. Unlike Kevin Love, Miller was known for being a good positional defender earlier in his career. It's fair to call Love a Brad Miller upgrade.
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

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Love had a nice 43 and 17 tonight.
In a losing effort, once again. And once again, he ate his shot, this time getting rejected by Carmelo Anthony with 1:22 left in the game and Minnesota down by six.

In the final analysis, how does Love make this team better? This Minnesota team is not any better than the team a year ago when Al Jefferson was there as the best player.

That's the part you don't seem to understand -- Love's numbers seem to be empty numbers that don't help make the team better. Most premier players' output has an effect on the team's bottom line and/or help improve their teammates' efficiencies.
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Kevin Love versus historical greats

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In a losing effort, once again. And once again, he ate his shot, this time getting rejected by Carmelo Anthony with 1:22 left in the game.
Oh snap, he got blocked. Well thats it, he's officially a horrible player.
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