zagsfan20

-Take away Rodman's rebounding and he's basically Bruce Bowen.

-Love could be like a Laimbeer and McHale on a title team. 2nd or 3rd option. You even agreed he plays like Laimbeer.

-If you put McHale on a roster like the Wolves current roster you think they'd be great? lol ok.

-I retracted the Malone comments. I admittely went overboard.

-Kareem was better than Malone.


I don't see how any of those a 'ridiculous ramblings'.

Your the one who got into the picture posting game to begin with.

__________________
"I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything".
- John McCain

Rodney Stuckey is the future of the league.

Najee

It shows you have no idea of evaluating players. By most accounts, those are ridiculous ramblings.

1.) Bruce Bowen wasn't a scrub. He was a top-of-the-line defender. Dennis Rodman without the rebounding acumen was an elite defender, even better than Bowen. Scrubs are guys fighting for 10-day contracts, not perennial all-NBA Defensive players.

2.) Bill Laimbeer was the fourth- or fifth-best player on the Pistons "Bad Boys" teams, depending on various stages of the team's runs.

3.) Kevin McHale (a person I actually saw play) was an all-NBA player in his prime. He was more like Kevin Garnett's all-NBA days; McHale's early career was actually undersold statistically because he was originally the sixth man on Boston's teams.

4.) Moses Malone was arguably the best player in the NBA from 1978-79 through 1982-83. Kevin Love is nowhere close to that kind of regard.

__________________
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that love survives and we'll rock forever.

e-monk

you're as in you are - and ps Oden's ceiling was never much more than Mutombo with few more points

Najee

In case you missed it, some of zagsfan's ridiculous ramblings:

I also recall zagsfan20 was looking at PER to justify his equally idiotic stance that Kevin Love was on the same level as MVP-level Moses Malone and Kevin McHale. He can't come back with something factual, particularly when he's been labeled as someone who has no actual knowledge and ability to discern talent.

__________________
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that love survives and we'll rock forever.

Adam

Personally, I think that you compare past players to present by looking how each stands relative to his peers.

McHale was obviously better than Love. He was the best PF in the league for a couple years before Barkley and Malone surpassed him. Love compared to his peers is behind a good six or seven guys right now.

My top five PF's are:

1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. Garnett
4. Malone (Karl)
5. McHale

I penalize Hayes because he played too much of his career pre-merger and I don't count Moses as a PF.

__________________

e-monk

I penalize Hayes because Im not a big fan of low efficiency high volume bigs (like for instance Kevin Love)

maybe Hayes is a good cognate for Love - except of course Hayes was good defensively and Love? well he's on the court while defense is being played around him

Najee

You can make a case that Kevin McHale was the best power forward in the NBA from 1983-84 through 1986-87. Some of his numbers were impacted by being the sixth man in Boston, mostly because the Celtics wanted to create an even greater mismatch when he came in the game.

I'll have to look back, but the only ones I would consider on his level in 1983-84 would be someone like Buck Williams, but Williams wasn't quite the offensive nightmare McHale was. McHale also was a more versatile defender. Dan Roundfield maybe, but he didn't have the length McHale had nor the size. The same holds true for Maurice Lucas.

BTW, Moses Malone was primarily known as center. He played power forward early in his career as a teen-ager, but he was moved to center once he filled out.

__________________
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that love survives and we'll rock forever.

Najee

Nah, that's an insult to Elvin Hayes. Kevin Love is nowhere near the scorer the Big E was and Hayes was a much better defender. Love is more like a Bill Laimbeer/Brad Miller hybrid without the defense.

__________________
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that love survives and we'll rock forever.

Diable

It's really sad that you're serious about this ****. If this was a gimmick it'd be hilarious, but seriously comparing Kevin Love to anything above roleplayers is just pathetic. Is this guy even the best player on the one of the worst teams in the league? Maybe, but Beasley is a similarly dime a dozen type player who makes a minimal impact on a team's success.

People who worship numbers without context are the worst type of tool. Love is literally nothing except numbers and rebounding numbers aren't all that important in a vacuum. There are more rebounds in basketball statistics than anything else except missed field goals...Love gets those too.

__________________

zagsfan20

Miller has averaged 7 rebounds for his career. Not really sure what they have in common.

__________________
"I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything".
- John McCain

Rodney Stuckey is the future of the league.

zagsfan20

Love had a nice 43 and 17 tonight.

__________________
"I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything".
- John McCain

Rodney Stuckey is the future of the league.

zagsfan20

I'm not really sure I started this thread either.

__________________
"I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything".
- John McCain

Rodney Stuckey is the future of the league.

Najee

Actually, Brad Miller has averaged 7.4 rebounds per game for his career. The numbers are higher when looking at his years as a starter, most notably in Sacramento.

Other than that, Miller is known for being a good outside shooter for a big man. Unlike Kevin Love, Miller was known for being a good positional defender earlier in his career. It's fair to call Love a Brad Miller upgrade.

__________________
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that love survives and we'll rock forever.

Najee

In a losing effort, once again. And once again, he ate his shot, this time getting rejected by Carmelo Anthony with 1:22 left in the game and Minnesota down by six.

In the final analysis, how does Love make this team better? This Minnesota team is not any better than the team a year ago when Al Jefferson was there as the best player.

That's the part you don't seem to understand -- Love's numbers seem to be empty numbers that don't help make the team better. Most premier players' output has an effect on the team's bottom line and/or help improve their teammates' efficiencies.

__________________
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that love survives and we'll rock forever.

zagsfan20

Oh snap, he got blocked. Well thats it, he's officially a horrible player.

__________________
"I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything".
- John McCain

Rodney Stuckey is the future of the league.