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Old 11-06-2012, 08:48 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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And that still leaves four guys for an unquestionable top three big man.
So again you don't want to touch Jermaine finishing 3rd in MVP voting at all?
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:53 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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So again you don't want to touch Jermaine finishing 3rd in MVP voting at all?
You're bringing up the MVP award in an era where Steve Nash won two (and I love Steve)? And you don't want to touch the ridiculous claim that Jermaine was better than Shaq in 2005?

You said he was a top three big man. I named five that were clearly better and at least one team that was clearly better than the Pacers that year. I don't know if I'd take Indiana over Miami or Detroit that year either.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:56 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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You're bringing up the MVP award in an era where Steve Nash won two (and I love Steve)? And you don't want to touch the ridiculous claim that Jermaine was better than Shaq in 2005?

You said he was a top three big man. I named five that were clearly better and at least one team that was clearly better than the Pacers that year. I don't know if I'd take Indiana over Miami or Detroit that year either.
Awesome.


Not wasting my time.


There's a reason hardly anyone posts with you Luke.


You run around telling everyone they're wrong, and how you're smart and never wrong because "Luke doesn't look at box scores. Luke watches every single NBA game ever and analyses"

Honestly, for once, shut the **** up. You seem to think you're gods gift to basketball opinion, and its a god damn joke.


I won't be wasting any more time with you in this thread. Enjoy your reply.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:35 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

Coping out and misquoting. Shocker.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:32 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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Do the Pacers get to the Finals that season and win a championship? At the time that it happened (still relatively early in the season), the Pacers had the best record in the East, I believe (maybe the league). They ended up 3rd in their division, 6th overall in the East, and were eliminated by the Pistons in the 2nd round that year. But with Artest there and with them getting a higher seed without the suspensions to Jermaine O'neal, Stephen Jackson and Ron Artest, you'd have to think they would've been the favorite to get to the Finals (don't think many would've picked them to beat the Spurs, but it was definitely a possibility).

That year ended and Reggie retired. The next year, Artest demanded a trade and was sent to Sacramento. Next thing you know, O'Neal and Jackson were gone and the Pacers were left to rebuild for years before becoming relevant again last season and now this season.
This is a really good proposition, one of those things you can't believe you've never wondered before. 2004 would have been a damn good year to be a Pacers fan. A lot had come together at that point, and it's an understatement to say it's a shame that one basketball fan might have been historically responsible for changing the course of Reggie Miller's career. If there's one player I could alter time for, and award a ring where none have been won -- it'd have to be Reggie Miller. Sorry Elgin Baylor.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:31 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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You're bringing up the MVP award in an era where Steve Nash won two (and I love Steve)? And you don't want to touch the ridiculous claim that Jermaine was better than Shaq in 2005?

You said he was a top three big man. I named five that were clearly better and at least one team that was clearly better than the Pacers that year. I don't know if I'd take Indiana over Miami or Detroit that year either.
Indiana was blowing out the Pistons when the brawl happened. The Pistons were never as good as they were after the championship, where they beat a horribly built Fab 4 Lakers. That team was basically Shaq/Kobe. GP was doing nothing but shooting 3s, and Malone was doing nothing but shooting from the elbow.

Artest was DPOY, O'Neal was undoubtedly the best big in the east and a DPOY candidate. I won't say he's better than Shaq, but he was indeed top 3 in MVP voting. He came off a year where he had a triple double in points, rebounds, blocks. Not even Duncan had a triple double with 10 blocks. If it wasn't for KG doing his 15 rebounds a game in Minnesota, O'Neal would've made NBA 1st team.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:08 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

I don't care what Indiana was doing in the eighth game of the regular season, they were a really talented team, they were capable of beating anyone on a given night.

Karl Malone was great for the Lakers but he was injured in the finals. You don't know what you're talking about.

Artest was great, agreed.

How can Jermaine be "unquestionably" the best big man in the east when during the '04-'05 season when you just said that "I won't say he's better than Shaq?". Do you know what season we're talking about?
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:34 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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Your point being? Would anyone actually hesitate to build around Timmy/Manu/Parker in 2005 as opposed to Jermaine/Artest/Miller? I know I wouldn't.
My point being that we weren't just a Jermaine O'Neal led team?
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:04 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

Why even bother? If you guys get to know Luke, you'll understand there's no point.

He knows everything. So far in the last few posts hes told Chan he has no idea what he's talking about, asked Gonzo "Your point being?" (like some hormone'd up teenage girl), and argued with me.


In Lukes mind hes the resident expert for everything NBA. I'm sure he watched a hell of a lot more Pacer games than Gonzo and I during that period of time anyways so there's no point arguing with the master.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:23 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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My point being that we weren't just a Jermaine O'Neal led team?
It was a Jermaine O'Neal led team. Just like the Spurs were a Tim Duncan led team. Does that change the fact that both of those players had plenty of help around them? Of course not. But I never saw Jermaine as a best player on a championship team kind of guy. He was too inefficient offensively. The talent and depth on the roster, along with O'Neal, helped form a great team. They would have contended to be in the finals at least in 2005 and probably in 2006, but I can't see them winning either year. Apparently that makes me the worst person in the world.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:28 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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Why even bother? If you guys get to know Luke, you'll understand there's no point.

He knows everything. So far in the last few posts hes told Chan he has no idea what he's talking about, asked Gonzo "Your point being?" (like some hormone'd up teenage girl), and argued with me.


In Lukes mind hes the resident expert for everything NBA. I'm sure he watched a hell of a lot more Pacer games than Gonzo and I during that period of time anyways so there's no point arguing with the master.
Nothing like a two day temper tantrum from a 30 year old to show everyone what basketball forums are really all about!

The best part about this is that you're the one calling me out, after dodging every basketball related point in my posts, while still attempting to stay relevent in the conversation by complaining about things unrelated to the topic at hand. Classic.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:17 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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Nothing like a two day temper tantrum from a 30 year old to show everyone what basketball forums are really all about!

The best part about this is that you're the one calling me out, after dodging every basketball related point in my posts, while still attempting to stay relevent in the conversation by complaining about things unrelated to the topic at hand. Classic.
You haven't made any points. You say things in threads like "Come on, you're wrong, they'd never beat the Spurs!" like its a point.

Thats an opinion dipshit. Not a point.


And if you want to know about JO being a top 3 big man, bring up threads from that year. He was one of the top guys were you could argue a case for him. Plenty of guys had him over Dirk at the time, as well as a case being made for others.

If you don't agree with that, cool, no one cares. What is ridiculous is you waltzing around from thread to thread acting like your opinion, and its just that, opinion, never fact, is the be all end all of a debate.


By the way, your retorts are getting tired. "He's trying to stay relevant!" Yea... no, don't come into the Pacers forum and try to tell me how to post. I know you seem to think your purple username should give you an air of authority and shows you're the most knowledgeable basketball fan in the world, but it doesn't.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:19 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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It was a Jermaine O'Neal led team. Just like the Spurs were a Tim Duncan led team. Does that change the fact that both of those players had plenty of help around them? Of course not. But I never saw Jermaine as a best player on a championship team kind of guy. He was too inefficient offensively. The talent and depth on the roster, along with O'Neal, helped form a great team. They would have contended to be in the finals at least in 2005 and probably in 2006, but I can't see them winning either year. Apparently that makes me the worst person in the world.
No. Having that opinion is fine.


Arguing with people and saying that opinion is fact and everyone else is wrong also doesn't make you the worst person in the world. Just makes you an annoying dick head.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:24 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

Still haven't addressed the whole 1.) Timmy 2.) Shaq 3.) KG is still three people no matter how you slice it. I'd take Dirk after those guys in that season but he's literally the only one that's arguable.

And coming in like a dickhead? I said they'd compete to go to the finals for two years. How is that being a dickhead? Because I don't think they're better than arguably the best Spurs incarnation of all time? I'm just not seeing it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:28 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: If The Malice In The Palace Doesn't Happen...

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Still haven't addressed the whole 1.) Timmy 2.) Shaq 3.) KG is still three people no matter how you slice it. I'd take Dirk after those guys in that season but he's literally the only one that's arguable.

And coming in like a dickhead? I said they'd compete to go to the finals for two years. How is that being a dickhead? Because I don't think they're better than arguably the best Spurs incarnation of all time? I'm just not seeing it.
Read the multiple posts over if you don't see it.

You could argue the Pacers wouldn't make it past the first round. That's fine, its an opinion.

What makes you a dick head is you aren't debating. As per usual you're coming in, telling everyone they're wrong because "you don't see it", so that must mean your opinion is right and everyone else is wrong.

Its basketball boards, not LukeTellsEveryoneHowItIs.com.


And again, go look up those threads from 2004-2005. JO was being argued as a top big man. You can disagree with it in retrospect all you'd like, it doesn't change that it was being discussed.
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