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Old 09-10-2013, 02:36 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Celtics How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

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Old 09-10-2013, 01:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

No.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

he wouldn't have mattered much in the wins department .

behind a prime mchale and parish, at his absolute best he simply would have replaced bill walton .
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

There would never have been a Jordan era if Len Bias didn't die
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

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Old 09-21-2013, 08:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

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Originally Posted by Da Grinch View Post
he wouldn't have mattered much in the wins department .

behind a prime mchale and parish, at his absolute best he simply would have replaced bill walton .
Yeah, he wouldn't have much of an impact in his first year.

He would, however, help keep fresh the starting line-up, considering Bird and McHale had to play heavy minutes in the playoffs (because the Celtics' bench sucked).

Since the Celtics were one of my favourite teams to watch in the 80's, i've always wandered what would have happened if
1- Bias hadn't been a coke-addict and translated well enough his game to the NBA;
2- Bird hadn't suffered such crippling injuries;
3- Reggie hadn't died.

AT THE VERY LEAST, the Celtics would have remained a powerhouse til the early 90's. Probably snatching a championship or 2 in the meanwhile...

Sad.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:21 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

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Originally Posted by PauloCatarino View Post
Yeah, he wouldn't have much of an impact in his first year.

He would, however, help keep fresh the starting line-up, considering Bird and McHale had to play heavy minutes in the playoffs (because the Celtics' bench sucked).

Since the Celtics were one of my favourite teams to watch in the 80's, i've always wandered what would have happened if
1- Bias hadn't been a coke-addict and translated well enough his game to the NBA;
2- Bird hadn't suffered such crippling injuries;
3- Reggie hadn't died.

AT THE VERY LEAST, the Celtics would have remained a powerhouse til the early 90's. Probably snatching a championship or 2 in the meanwhile...

Sad.
there are a lot of what ifs with everyone who isn't winning , but bird got hurt after the 86 playoffs , so pretty much from that point on he was playing in pain. 87 was their last good chance , after that they were too old .

my guess is that bias wouldn't have been the goods , he OD'd because he made a poor choice if he had survived he probably would have gotten himself suspended for drug use and joined the legacy of roy tarpley, michael ray richardson and chris washburn as guys who could have been much more than they were.
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

It's an interesting question. In Bill Simmons' highly flawed homer book, he argues that Bias would have allowed McHale to play less, which would have kept his foot in better shape, and then McHale would have been able to block Magic's space hook. The 87 Celtics bench was pretty bad, as this '87 article points out:



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1065993/3/index.htm


Bias could have been a great backup for Bird and a small but effective backup for McHale, as opposed to Fred Roberts, who took most of that time in the playoffs.

That said, I still think the Lakers would have won the championship. That was their year, and Mychal Thompson gave them the endurance at center that they didn't have the year before against the Rockets. Scott and Worthy were in their absolute prime, and the Lakers still had Rambis and Cooper and all the dudes that won them the title in '85. Watch this video; I don't know that any team ever could have beaten this crew -


I think this is the most underrated of the "great" teams. The '86 Celtics (with a healthy Walton) vs. the '87 Lakers (angry after the '86 season) would have been a thing to behold.

So for me the interesting question is what Bias would have done for the 88-93 Celtics. Think about the 1990 Celtics, for instance, after Danny Ainge left (although would the Celts still make that trade if they had Bias?) - in addition to Reggie Lewis and young legs like Brian Shaw and Kevin Gamble, they had a still-strong if not peak Bird, McHale playing great, and Parish still an all-star. The '90 Celtics lost to the young, tough Knicks, but there's an argument to be made that they would have been just as good or better than the Bad Boy Pistons with that lineup, and they would have dominated the Blazers in the finals.

The other option is that Bias is just as great as we thought and doesn't like playing behind Bird and McHale. So they trade him for . . . who, exactly? If Bias is an emerging all-star, capable of 20-10, can they get a quality point guard to replace the aging DJ in '89? Mark Price, maybe, or Kevin Johnson, or even a combo-guard like Alvin Robertson or Fat Lever? Or do they trade the aging Bird to Indiana for Reggie Miller or Chuck Person? There are rumors that Auerbach wanted to do this to get somebody like Sam Perkins, apparently, as Bird and McHale's careers were winding down.

So I think that's whats at stake - not the '87 season, but the possibility of Bird winning one last championship in the 90s. Which sucks if you think about it as a Celtics fan (and I'm not really, but I love those 80s teams).

Thoughts?
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Old 06-09-2014, 04:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

Bias was an idiot for doing it, enough said.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

huh
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:16 AM   #11 (permalink)
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This team would've beaten the Lakers. For you cynics, think on this: a tired, battered, banged up Celtics team virtually devoid of a bench, with 3 of it's starters playing with serious injury, pushed the Lakers to 6 games and came within a fumbled rebound from making it 7. Let that sink in. HAD MCHALE HELD ON TO THE REBOUND IN THE LAST SECONDS OF GAME 4, THE SERIES WOULD HAVE GONE 7.

Here's why. Bias had all the tools to become a GREAT player right out of the blocks. He had terrific instincts on the court, could create a play for himself or a teammate, a smooth stroke on his shot, elite work ethic, and (perhaps most importantly) the coaching staff and mentoring players who had the knack for developing young players.

1) He would have provided coach KC Jones with the option of sitting Kevin McHale while that broken bone in his foot healed. For those not aware, he incurred the injury (a hairline fracture of the navicular bone in his right foot) in March, and the hairline fracture split wide open during the playoffs. He continued to play on it. With Bias as a backup, Jones could simply order his star power forward to sit and let it heal.

Long term, this helps McHale's career. He was never quite the same player after this injury, just imagine if he'd let it heal. Short term, this would have given the Celtics a rested and healthy McHale for the 1987 playoffs. For you haters, let that sink in. McHale played as well as he did virtually on one foot. Imagine him healthy and rested.

2) Bias, once McHale returns, gives the Celtics quality depth at forward. He could have put in about 25 minutes per game, and put up about 16 points and 8 boards a game, keeping the big 3 frontline to about 38 minutes a game. Better than the whole Celtics bench during those playoffs.

He certainly didn't need to set the world on fire, just play solid like he was capable of, in replacing McHale while he was out and relieving both Larry Legend and McHale the rest of the time. He even helps Chief at center, as McHale can rotate to center while Bias plays in his spot at forward.

3) With his help off the bench, the Celtics become a team that finished those series in fewer games. They already swept the Bulls in 3 in the first series. In the Conference Semi Finals, the Bucks squeeked out a win in overtime in the first 4 games, then went on to push the Celtics to 7. With Bias' help off the bench, this series is done in 4. Only the Pistons would have pushed the Celtics in the conference finals.

The reason why is something Bias would have given some help with. Energy. The Pistons had Dennis Rodman and John Salley coming off the bench, giving an energy the Celtics had trouble matching. The only sad thing I can think of is this might have deprived us of the greatest moment of that series, Bird stealing an inbound pass and feeding DJ for the game-winning layup. With Bias giving the Celtics quality minutes off the bench, this game wouldn't have come down to this at the end.

Obviously, this healthier and better rested Celtics team would've been more competitive in the first two games in LA, would've taken all 3 games in The Garden, and would've extended their lead in the first half of game 6 and avoided the third quarter collapse in the same game, taking the trophy home.

Obviously, this scenario isn't written in stone, but it's a reasonable one based on reality.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

One of the best first posts I've ever seen on this site. Welcome.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

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Old 06-16-2017, 11:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: How Dominant a Healthy 1987 Celtics with Len Bias would have been? How many wins?

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