RollWithEm

Depth Charts:

Bullets
PG Chris Paul (38) / Fat Lever (10
SG David Thompson (38) / Shane Battier (10)
SF Larry Bird (39) / Connie Hawkins (9)
PF Dennis Rodman (40) / Buck Williams (8)
C Dwight Howard (38) / Mel Daniels (10)

Hornets
PG West (32) / Cousy (13) / Arenas (3)
SG Robertson (38) / Arenas (9) / Jones (1)
SF Gervin (35) / Jones (13)
PF Thurmond (34) / Cunningham (14)
C Mikan (27) / Chambers (16) / Cunningham (5)


Arguments:

Bullets: There are some interesting matchups in this series, and I think both teams are being sold short by some voters. I think the backcourts will give each other fits. West and Robertson will have trouble with Paul's speed and Skywalker's athleticism (whether slashing or finishing). Robertson will get his points in the paint, and if he starts to get carried away then Battier will need to come in to play spot minutes as a dedicated defender. West is one of my faves of all time and definitely is the guy I don't want to see with the ball in his hands in the clutch.

Gervin is a stone-cold scorer, but that's really all he did and I think he's out of place in this league at small forward. Honestly, I think Bird has a significant advantage here. These two will trade baskets all night long, but Bird brings far more to the game. Prime Bird was a very good team defender, one of the smartest, craftiest, most intuitive players to pick up a ball, and a galactically better rebounder and passer than Gervin.

Rodman and Thurmond are an interesting match because neither will be looking to score much. Thurmond will look to score more, but he's not terribly efficient so Rodman will cheat off of him at times to stop penetration from the much more dangerous perimeter players on the Hornets. Rodman could even see some time guarding Robertson, with Thompson on Gervin and Bird on Thurmond.

Mikan is one of the toughest players in this league and he'll do better than some people think, but Howard is longer, heavier, stronger, and much more athletic. He's also a vastly more efficient scorer, and knows to play to his strengths.

I think some voters are sleeping on my bench. Lever was a great floor general, an excellent defender, was Billups-like in his ability to avoid mistakes, and played much bigger than his size. Adjusting stats for pace, he will go rebound for rebound with Oscar. Hawkins is the heart of the second unit. His prime was short, but we're only talking about one season in time with this league. At SF he is big, strong, and active, fabulous in the open court, and a gifted passer and hard-nosed rebounder. His talent as a finisher and aerial scorer were compared to Baylor, Thompson and Erving. Buck Williams was simply one of the toughest defenders and most effective, consistent rebounders ever, and a very efficient scorer to boot. He was the missing piece that turned the Drexler-Porter Blazers into contenders. Mel Daniels played all his career in the ABA, so y'all can discount his stats however you like, but he was basically a bigger, rich man's Buck Williams. Daniels is widely regarded as the best ABA player to never play in the NBA. He was the league MVP twice and led his team to three titles, dominating that league despite the presence of better-known guys who had been or would be NBA superstars. I took Battier over several better-known players because he fills a critical need. I needed a great perimeter defender who can nail the 3 if his defender plays off him, and that's what I got. Go find a list of the best perimeter defenders of this era or of all-time, and there's a good chance Battier is on it. He's an excellent glue guy, and I don't need much else from him. Note that none of my reserves is slated to play more than 10 mpg.

The Bullets have good to great rebounders at every position, and that will help them do what they are built to do - run like greyhounds. Bird, Thompson, Paul, and Hawkins were/are all amazing in the open court, and they will thrive together. And when the game slows, I have a mega-efficient low post monster in Howard, a lightning-quick penetrator in Paul, all-world slashers in Thompson and Hawkins, marksmen in Bird and Battier, and Bird's overall clutch, never-say-die mindset.



Hornets: Thurmond would simply overpower Rodman. He's a great rebounder and defender, but 6'11" 225 vs. 6'7" 210 is a huge mismatch. You could switch Howard onto Nate, but then you have Rodman on Mikan 6'10" 245. Both can pull Dwight away from the rim with their short/mid-range jumpers. Mel Daniels and Buck Williams doesn't scare anyone when those starting post players have to head to the bench. Depth is a HUGE issue.

Bird vs. Gervin is one of the best you'll see in any 1st match around the league. These guys will both likely light it up in a back-and-forth challenge.

"The Big O" has an enormous advantage on David Thompson. Odds, are Thompson will be out drinking or getting high the night before anyways, but even sober, he stands no chance of containing Robertson. A walking triple-double, Oscar is the key to Charlotte's win. Pay too much attention to him, and he'll set up his teammates, but ignore him, and he'll kill you on his own.

West and Paul should be another great matchup, with very contrasting styles, but both very effective. One or the other going off could turn the tables in this game, but West excels at defense, as does Paul, so this match-up may be less significant than many think, as the All-Defensive players take turns shutting each other down or forcing someone else to beat their team.

The Hornets bench has firepower that the Bullets lack. Sam Jones bring great defense and an athletic wing who can kill you silently with his mid-range jumper. Cousy will give West a break, and be used strictly as a facilitator with his elite vision. Chambers and Cunningham have freedom to play all out and use their athleticism to wreck havok on the glass. Both posts have a great advantage in getting up and down the floor and beating the opposing bigs up the floor. Arenas simply needs to go "hibachi" and be the spark plug in limited minutes.

This is not a game played on paper by looking at names. The Bullets starting five stands no chance against a more complete Hornets team that will wear them down leading into the 4th quarter. Lack of depth costs them a victory.

__________________
But that's just me.

-33-

Starting Five
C - George Mikan - 6'10", 245 lbs - ('50-51) - 28.4 ppg, 14.1 rpg
PF - Nate Thurmond - 6'11", 225 lbs - ('68-69) - 21.5 ppg, 19.5 rpg, 3.6 apg
SF - George Gervin - 6'7", 180 lbs - ('79-80) - 33.1 ppg (52% FG), 5.2 rpg, 2.6 apg, 1.4 spg, 1.0 bpg
SG - Oscar Robertson - 6'5", 205 lbs - ('61-62) - 30.8 ppg (48% FG), 12.5 rpg, 11.4 apg
PG - Jerry West - 6'2", 175 lbs - ('69-70) - 31.2 ppg (50% FG), 4.6 rpg, 7.5 apg

Reserves:
G/F - Sam Jones - 6'4", 198 lbs - ('64-65) - 25.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 2.8 apg
F/C - Billy Cunningham - 6'6", 210 lbs - ('72-73) - 24.1 ppg (49% FG), 12.0 rpg, 6.3 apg, 2.6 spg
G - Bob Cousy - 6'1", 175 lbs - ('59-60) - 19.4 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 9.5 apg
F/C - Tom Chambers - 6'10", 220 lbs - ('89-90) - 27.2 ppg (50% FG), 7.0 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.1 spg
G - Gilbert Arenas - 6'3", 191 lbs - ('05-06) - 29.3 ppg (2.5 3FGpg), 3.5 rpg, 6.1 apg, 2.0 spg

***Click on player names to watch a highlight tape of their greatness for those who need more information on each player***

Rotation:
Post: Mikan (27) / Chambers (16)
Post: Thurmond (34) / Cunningham (19)

Wing: Gervin (35) / Jones (14)
Wing: Robertson (38) / Arenas (9)

Point: West (32) / Cousy (13) / Arenas (3)

__________________


Formerly DQ for 3, Shaq_Diesel, and Caron_Butler.

Road to Back-to-Back Championships
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RollWithEm

-33- We need your minutes breakdowns.

__________________
But that's just me.

-33-

Fixed

__________________


Formerly DQ for 3, Shaq_Diesel, and Caron_Butler.

Road to Back-to-Back Championships
16-15-14-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

RollWithEm

If you don't list them by position, I will have to guess... and you may not like what I guess.

__________________
But that's just me.

jericho

Really sorry to have gone AWOL on this, fellas. I'm suddenly dealing with a personal crisis this week that is sucking up my time and energy. I'm hoping to catch up and post the needed information in the next couple days, but if I can't get to it by end of tomorrow perhaps you shouldn't wait for me. Life happens, evidently.

__________________
Favorite players: Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone, Bill Russell, Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe, Sidney Moncrief, Lafayette Lever, Dan Issel, Bobby Jones, Julius Erving, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West...and Brooks Thompson

LEGENDS DRAFT:

C - Dwight Howard / Mel Daniels
PF - Dennis Rodman / Buck Williams
SF - Larry Bird / Connie Hawkins
SG - David Thompson / Shane Battier
PG - Chris Paul / Fat Lever

Firefight

I like the Bullets in this match-up. Dwight and Rodman down-low will cause defensive fits for Mikan and Thurmond. The rebounding advantage is huge. Chris Paul and West is a good match-up, but I think Paul's speed would trump West. The bench of Washington is weak, so this game would be close. And in a close game, I want Bird to take over in the final minutes. I think Larry wins this one late in the 4th and carries the Bullets to a W.

l0st1

Gotta go with the Bullets. Like Fire said, I think Dwight and Rodman is a nasty defensive tandem that can basically cover any player on the court. West I think will hold his own pretty well against Paul but could have some issues with his speed. But that will be backed up by Dwight so should make up for some of the blow bys. Bird and Hawkins should have some interesting match ups this series. But I like them taking over late.

-33-

Thurmond would simply overpower Rodman. He's a great rebounder and defender, but 6'11" 225 vs. 6'7" 210 is a huge mismatch. You could switch Howard onto Nate, but then you have Rodman on Mikan 6'10" 245. Both can pull Dwight away from the rim with their short/mid-range jumpers. Mel Daniels and Buck Williams doesn't scare anyone when those starting post players have to head to the bench. Depth is a HUGE issue.

Bird vs. Gervin is one of the best you'll see in any 1st match around the league. These guys will both likely light it up in a back-and-forth challenge.

"The Big O" has an enormous advantage on David Thompson. Odds, are Thompson will be out drinking or getting high the night before anyways, but even sober, he stands no chance of containing Robertson. A walking triple-double, Oscar is the key to Charlotte's win. Pay too much attention to him, and he'll set up his teammates, but ignore him, and he'll kill you on his own.

West and Paul should be another great matchup, with very contrasting styles, but both very effective. One or the other going off could turn the tables in this game, but West excels at defense, as does Paul, so this match-up may be less significant than many think, as the All-Defensive players take turns shutting each other down or forcing someone else to beat their team.

The Hornets bench has firepower that the Bullets lack. Sam Jones bring great defense and an athletic wing who can kill you silently with his mid-range jumper. Cousy will give West a break, and be used strictly as a facilitator with his elite vision. Chambers and Cunningham have freedom to play all out and use their athleticism to wreck havok on the glass. Both posts have a great advantage in getting up and down the floor and beating the opposing bigs up the floor. Arenas simply needs to go "hibachi" and be the spark plug in limited minutes.

This is not a game played on paper by looking at names. The Bullets starting five stands no chance against a more complete Hornets team that will wear them down leading into the 4th quarter. Lack of depth costs them a victory.

__________________


Formerly DQ for 3, Shaq_Diesel, and Caron_Butler.

Road to Back-to-Back Championships
16-15-14-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

PauloCatarino

1-to-3, the Hornest have arguably the greatest starting backcourt trio in this league, offensive-wise. Damn!
But i just love the Bullet's post defense and the complementary offensive play of Paul, Thompson and Bird.

Bullets for me!

__________________
2012 Legends Draft Winner

Golden State Warriors:
PG- Steve Nash - Maurice Cheeks;
SG- John Havlicek - Latrell Sprewell;
SF- Bernard King - Mark Aguirre;
PF- Dirk Nowitzki - Maurice Lucas;
C- Hakeem Olajuwon - Robert Parish.

Knick Killer

Dennis Rodman made a living getting rebounds against guys bigger and stronger than him so I don't see how you could say that.

__________________

-33-

Thurmond was an animal, keeping him off the glass is going to wear out Rodman. But he played 30+ years ago, so he can't be very good. If he played today, he'd just be another guy. It all boils down to "recent" = "better", so my team won't do shit because everyone is balls deep in Dwight Howard (who overall isn't a dominant player especially offensively), etc, because 85% of the people voting don't know much about deep NBA history.

__________________


Formerly DQ for 3, Shaq_Diesel, and Caron_Butler.

Road to Back-to-Back Championships
16-15-14-13-12-11-10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

Knick Killer

I know who Thurmond is but I'm just saying, Rodman played in an era with some of the best big men in NBA history and he still managed to become one of the greatest rebounders of all-time. You can keep crying how nobody know's anything about NBA History like you apparently do and throw some more stats in our faces but the fact of the matter is, lot's of these older players stats are inflated and wouldn't have the same success against guys from today. Hell George Mikan for a while played in a league with no black people, do you really think he could play against Dwight Howard? You're only kidding yourself if you think he could.

Asides from that match-up, both teams are very competitive and I think the Hornets have one of the best back courts in the league but overall, the Bullets would have a better chance to win in my honest opinion. It has nothing to do with what era players are from or anything, my vote strictly goes to the team that I think would have a better chance to win.

__________________

jericho

Here are specific seasons, some key stats for those player seasons, and the intended minutes allocation for the Bullets.

Larry Bird (87-88) – 29.9 ppg, 52.7 fg%, 41.4 3pt% (98 3s made), 91.6 ft%, 9.3 rpg (25.5 creb%), 6.1 apg, 1.6 spg
Dennis Rodman (91-92) – 9.8 ppg, 53.9 fg%, 18.7 rpg (48.7 creb%), 2.3 apg
Dwight Howard (07-08) – 20.7 ppg, 59.9 fg%, 14.2 rpg (41.2 creb%), 1.3 apg, 2.1 bpg
David Thompson (77-78) – 27.6 ppg, 52.1 fg%, 33.6 3pt%, 77.8 ft%, 4.9 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.2 bpg
Chris Paul (07-08) – 21.1 ppg, 48.8 fg%, 36.9 3pt% (92 3s made), 77.8 ft%, 4.0 rpg, 11.0 apg, 2.7 spg
Mel Daniels (70-71) – 20.5 ppg , 51.5 fg%, 17.8 rpg (41.0 creb%), 2.1 apg, 2.8 bpg
Buck Williams (84-85) – 18.2 ppg, 53.0 fg%, 12.3 rpg (34.6 creb%), 2.0 apg
Connie Hawkins (67-68) – 26.7 ppg, 51.9 fg%, 13.4 rpg (26.2 creb%), 4.6 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.5 bpg
Shane Battier (05-06) – 10.1 ppg, 48.4 fg%, 39.4 3pt%, 78.5 ft%, 5.3 rpg
Fat Lever (87-88) – 18.9 ppg, 47.3 fg%, 78.5 ft%, 8.1 rpg (22.2 creb%), 7.8 apg, 2.7 spg

Dwight Howard 38 / Mel Daniels 10
Dennis Rodman 40 / Buck Williams 8
Larry Bird 39 / Connie Hawkins 9
David Thompson 38 / Shane Battier 10
Chris Paul 38 / Fat Lever 10

__________________
Favorite players: Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone, Bill Russell, Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe, Sidney Moncrief, Lafayette Lever, Dan Issel, Bobby Jones, Julius Erving, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West...and Brooks Thompson

LEGENDS DRAFT:

C - Dwight Howard / Mel Daniels
PF - Dennis Rodman / Buck Williams
SF - Larry Bird / Connie Hawkins
SG - David Thompson / Shane Battier
PG - Chris Paul / Fat Lever

roux2dope

Little surprised about west running the point and he big o playing the 2, with west being the better shooter and big o being the better passer