RollWithEm

Depth Charts:

Cavaliers
PG Allen Iverson (33)/Dave Bing (15)
SG Michael Cooper (26)/Kevin Martin (8)/Allen Iverson (8)/Dave Bing (1)/Bobby Jones (5)
SF Julius Erving (35)/Bobby Jones (13)
PF Bob Pettit (33)/Kevin Love (15)
C Yao Ming (33)/Roy Hibbert (9)/Kevin Love (6)

Knicks
PG Kevin Johnson (32)/Ricky Pierce (16)
SG Michael Jordan (36)/Dave DeBusschere(12)
SF Rick Barry (36)/Kiki Vandeweghe(12)
PF Wes Unseld (36)/ AC Green(12)
C Willis Reed (36)/Mark Eaton (12)

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But that's just me.

XxIrvingxX

I'm probably going to lose this match up because some of the voters won't have a clue who Michael Cooper is. Just let me refresh your memory on who he is. Michael Cooper is regarded by many as one of the best defenders at the SG position in the history of the NBA. The guy was ruthless on defense. For the first time in this entire league, Michael Jordan is finally going to be going up against someone who can slow him down. Sure, Michael will probably still put up some good numbers, but no where near the amount that we're all accustomed to.

So you obviously can't lean on Michael Jordan to win you this one. So who will you lean on? Rick Barry? Guess what. Julius Erving, another excellent defender in his days, will be covering him. Rick Barry just like Michael won't be playing as well as he normally does. Once again, I'm not saying they won't score well, but if you plan on seeing either of them score 30 points on at least 45% shooting, you're wasting your time.

Now I will say this, the same thing that will happen to Jordan and Parry will probably happen to Iverson as well, due to Kevin Johnson....oh wait, no it wont! Iverson will completely destroy Johnson. It won't even be a contest.

Wes Unsled won't stand a chance against Bob Petit. Not only is Petit a better rebounder, but he will dominate Unsled in terms of scoring. Then you got Willis Reed. Reed I love yea and you were a terrific defender, but you're going up against Yao Ming here. At 6 ft 9, you're obviously at a huge disadvantage. Yao Ming will rip you to shreds offensively. And on defense, well, once again, the height will most certainly be a huge factor. Usually it isn't but in this case, it most certainly is, especially with a player like Yao Ming.

And that's just the starting five. You will still have to deal with the combo of Dave Bing and Kevin Martin, Bobby Jones defensive intensity, and Kevin Love's offensive intensity and incredible rebounding skills.

The Cavs match up very well here against the Knicks. This is actually the one match up where I just can't see how the other team could win. Across the boards, my match ups completely kill the Knick's match ups at every position.

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Wilt_The_Stilt

I really don't think you can convince people that Cooper would "completely kill" MJ.

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"We've learned Kobe Bryant has been asked to run the Federal Reserve. The feeling is, he can do more with three quarters than most of us can do with a whole dollar."
--Peter Vescey, NY Post

Knicks4life

Julius Erving was not a great defender he could block shots and gets steals but his on the ball defense was horrible his Sixers teams before Moses got there were infamous for their lack of defense. Michael Cooper and Roy Hibbert are the only two players on your team that played defense.

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"Winning is the most important thing in my life,after breathing. Breathing first, winning next"-George Steinbrenner

XxIrvingxX

Rofl

Bobby Jones career accomplishments.


NBA champion (1983)
4× NBA All-Star (1977–1978, 1981–1982)
ABA All-Star (1976)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (1983)
8× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1977–1984)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1985)
All-ABA Second Team (1976)
2× ABA All-Defensive First Team (1975–1976)
ABA All-Rookie First Team (1975)
Consensus NCAA All-American Second Team (1974)
#24 Retired by the Philadelphia 76ers

You were saying?

And his on ball defense was horrible??? Did you ever watch Erving play in a single game?? He wasn't the best on ball defender but horrible??? Just stop. You don't make the defensive first team by being a horrible on ball defender. I don't care how many steals and blocks you get.

Wilt the slit, please enlighten me by telling me where in my argument did I ever once say that Cooper would "completely kill" MJ.

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Wilt_The_Stilt

Every position includes MJ, no?

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"We've learned Kobe Bryant has been asked to run the Federal Reserve. The feeling is, he can do more with three quarters than most of us can do with a whole dollar."
--Peter Vescey, NY Post

Knicks4life

He made it once in the ABA

Horrible was probably too strong of an adjective to use but you trying to sell Erving as an elite perimeter defender that could slow down MJ or Barry is ridicules. Cooper I will admit could force Jordan to take some bad shots but MJ is still going to score 30, shoot around 47%, and get to the line.

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"Winning is the most important thing in my life,after breathing. Breathing first, winning next"-George Steinbrenner

XxIrvingxX

Oh wait oops okay yea you got me on that one lol.

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XxIrvingxX

Erving's defensive pressure would be good enough to make an impact on Parry's game. As I said before, not to the point where it would stop Parry from scoring 30, but it would definitely have an effect.

And Jordan couldn't even score 30 points when Gary Payton was guarding him! Now granted Gary Payton is one of the best defenders at PG in NBA history, but come on now. I can't argue that Jordan shooting 47% would only be a result of most of the shots that he would make be incredibly lucky shots, but considering how this is the same guy that Larry Bird said was the "greatest defender he had ever faced", I think he would be able to do just as good of a job as Payton did, if not better, of guarding Jordan, even though Payton had the physical attributes that made guarding Jordan possible.

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Knicks4life

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...812200CHI.html

Cooper played 30 mins guarding Jordan and Jordan had 42 and got to the line 22 times.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...703030GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...612170PHI.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...611040GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...703230PHI.html

Rick Barry had no problem scoring on Erving.

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"Winning is the most important thing in my life,after breathing. Breathing first, winning next"-George Steinbrenner

e-monk

Coop and no one either else is going to stop MJ, Dr J had a career drtg of 101 which is pretty close to elite - unseld and reed get the upper hand over Ming and Petit, Mike is Mike and oh yeah, Iverson is poison

XxIrvingxX

I don't see how this proves anything. This was the same year Michael Cooper ended up not making one of the all NBA defensive teams for the first time since 1980. Cooper was old were as Michael Jordan was in his fourth year in the NBA, still young and nearing towards his prime. Of course he's going to score a lot against Cooper. What did you think I picked up Cooper because I wanted the one who wasn't an ox on defense??

If that's all the evidence you have against Cooper on this one then you might as well stop trying. Until you have evidence that MJ was able to score with ease against Cooper when he was IN HIS PRIME, you aren't going to convince me of anything here. Once again I'm not saying Cooper would shut him down but I know MJ (curse the fact that they both have the same first name >_<) would definitely have a difficult time scoring against him, and if Payton can limit Michael to below 30 points, then so can Cooper.

As for Barry, it looks like you got me on this one. If in fact Barry's FG % is good in all of those games (which they don't show so it makes it kind of difficult to judge it) and if of course Erving was covering Barry the entire time (which he probably was) then I will give you that one.

And E-monk how the hell would Unsled and Reed get an advantage over Petit and Ming? Because I don't see it.

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e-monk

first of all either of those guys is going to run Ming off the floor - second both are more physical than either of the Cavs bigs and third if Ming does start going in the post you can bring in 7'4", two time DPoY, Eaton to guard him and turn him off like a light switch

e-monk

Erving would shut down Barry - in his ABA prime he had a career 99 drtg in addition to the blocks and steals

no one would shut down Mike but yeah coop could make him work a bit

but it really doesnt matter because if Im the coach of the Knicks with KJ at the wheel Im running and running and running and the Cavs are going to be playing defense 4 on 5 most of the time until they swap out Ming

I mean do we really think Iverson is going to play the kind of deliberate precision PG role required to control tempo and utilize Ming?

XxIrvingxX

They can but they aren't going to. Going by the times, Eaton won't be seeing much of Ming at all in this game so the third point doesn't prove anything. And don't bring him into this. This has nothing to do with Eaton, only Unsleed and Reed. What about when Ming is down in the low post and Reed is the only one there. What about when Ming tries to go for a dunk, and he ends up getting fouled, or when Ming shoots a mid range jumper? What the hell is Reed going to be able to do? Nothing.

Your first point may be correct, but they would probably run Shaq off the floor too. How well do you think they will do against him?

And here's a quote I found.

"Bob made 'second effort' a part of the sport's vocabulary. He kept coming at you more than any man in the game. He was always battling for position, fighting you off the boards."

You know who said this? Bill Russell. I don't need to explain to you who that man is. Unsled may be more physical, but you're acting like Pettit wouldn't put up a fight at all. It would be a war. Pettit would definitely get the edge though because he's a better scorer.

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