R-Star

So as long as there's any sort of physical contact you can fly around and act like you got shot by a shotgun.

No. Its flopping EH. If you're trying to exaggerate to get a call, its flopping.

That is what is recognized as flopping and what Stern is saying he'll look into. It's what SVG complains about every game he commentaries.

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E.H. Munro

Did Paul Pierce run into Shane Battier? Yes. Ergo, not a flop. Did LeBron James run over Paul Pierce? Yes. Ergo, not a flop. Did LeBron James run over Pietrus? Nope, Pietrus went down like a sack of potatoes and executed a picture perfect leg takedown on James. That's a flop. And it should have been a foul on Pietrus. But he sold it well with the flop.

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E.H. Munro

OK, kids, that looks to be good example of a flop as I can't see any contact, but then again it's the wrong camera angle to see it from (as Battier's between the camera and Pierce).

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

E.H. Munro

No, what they're looking at is the players hitting the deck even though there was no contact. That's what non-idiots mean when they discuss flopping. Not taking charges. Because otherwise there would have been this giant debate over flopping in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. The reason there wasn't is because taking charges isn't flopping. If you're absorbing the contact from the other guy, you ain't flopping.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

You don't know what you're talking about here. What is being talked about is the players exaggerating contact AND faking contact altogether.

Pierce is one of the worst exaggerators in the league.

I mean, you can view the word flop however you want I guess, but the league, media, and I assume most of the guys posting in this thread are talking about exaggerating contact and outright faking it.

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E.H. Munro

What else is new.

No, what's being discussed is players faking contact by diving, just as they do in soccer. That's why there was no debate over this from the 50s-90s, taking a charge isn't flopping. I doubt there are many clips of Bobby Jones taking charges floating around on Youtube, but you'll see the same thing with him, he would establish position on the floor before the offensive player was in the air, absorbed the contact and hit the deck. Good old fashioned defense. Not flopping.

And for those wondering, here's the Pietrus flop I was talking about, on the replay you can clearly see that he tripped James and had hold of him as he flopped.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

I'm not going to waste my day arguing with you old man. You're wrong. How about you go read some of the articles and see what the league and sporting media are talking about before you continue to look like a fool.

Or don't, I don't really care.

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JoeyJoJo

EH, sometimes when you take a charge, it's legitimate. Sometimes there is incidental contact and you go down anyway to try to get the foul call. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Flopping is exaggerating contact to trick the referees. This is what David Stern has said.

By your way of thinking (must be zero contact), most of these wouldn't be flops.

E.H. Munro

You're misunderstanding the debate here. People are saying that guys like Battier, Pierce, Davis, etc. are flopping when they hit the deck after contact. I'm saying that ain't flopping, that's good old fashioned taking charges. Have a look at the Pietrus flop I posted. There's clearly contact, but it's incidental contact, and Pietrus hits the ground like a sack of spuds, tripping LeBron and pulling him to the ground at the same time.

That's the sort of thing that the NBA is talking about, not old fashioned charge taking. And if they do anything about flopping, it's going to be targeted at plays like that, where players are hurling themselves on the ground after little/no contact. (E.g. the Haslem play I mentioned up thread, he felt Garnett behind him and threw himself on the floor to draw a loose ball call, which led to a Garnett tip in.)

You shouldn't listen to r-star on these things, his entire life is built around his belief that he's the king of the internet and tends to play a little fast & loose. Hence he spends half his time in Oz fighting with straw men.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

Classy post.

Again, you're wrong, but maybe if you insult me a couple more times, and slightly change your argument every post, it will change that.

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JoeyJoJo

Not all charges are created equal is all I'm saying. Sometimes Battier slides in and the offensive player just goes through him. Sometimes he slides in, the offensive player mostly sidesteps him, and Battier still falls down. One is good "old-fashioned" basketball, one is flopping. He does both.

R-Star

Some charges are fine. Other times a guy like Pierce will try to act like a grenade went off when someone contacts them from a charge, flailing their arms everywhere, snapping their neck back, falling down, etc. That's considered flopping.

Well if you're talking to anyone not named EH.

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E.H. Munro

I don't see Battier do much flopping. 98% of the time there's legitimate contact there. Like in the play that Pierce fouled out on. I thought it should have been a non-call because the two guys collided while heading to the same spot on the floor. But there's actual contact there, so that wasn't a flop, and I ended up arguing with other Boston fans about that on another board. That was absolutely not a flop, he hit the ground after actual contact. This wasn't a case of Bell and Ginobli brushing against one another and flying. Even in that video you posted those were all guys that were hitting the deck after incidental contact or no contact. And those are flops. But getting your position and taking the contact ain't flopping.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

RollWithEm

I hate to say it... but EH is totally right.

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But that's just me.

JoeyJoJo

Which of his arguments are you talking about?