Ballscientist

flop definition:
A player sells a foul to fool the referees.

Example:

Would you like to purchase the foul?

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E.H. Munro

I'm really only making the one argument here. Taking a charge isn't flopping. And some of these guys want to say that it is. But as taking charges in basketball predates my birth, that's clearly not what's been meant with the complaints in the last ten years. They've pretty explicitly been talking about the soccer style dives after little/no contact. If someone wants to make a case for me that flopping was a big deal back in the 70s, they're welcome to try. Unfortunately I was there and no one ever considered Bobby Jones a flopper. He was just the best in the business at taking charges.

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If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

Yep. And here it is. "Only charges"

No one said a charge is a flop EH. We said exaggerating contact is a flop. You said it isn't. It's right in this thread. So is me saying that after you were done with the personal insults you'd slowly start changing your argument, which you did.
Que more insults and you losing your temper. Please, let me know how dumb I am for not following your brilliant post.

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RollWithEm

I just went back and reread every single one of EH's posts in this thread... and I agree with every single one.

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But that's just me.

R-Star

Awesome. I sure don't.

If Paul Pierce is defending Lebron James and once James tries to break for a drive, Pierce decides to go flying like someone from the crowd hit a secret detonator, that's a flop.

You and EH can say its not because theres contact. I disagree. If you're falling to the ground or waiving your arms around like you're having a seizure from light contact, you're obviously faking to try to get a foul call. Its pathetic, and its flopping.

Again I will bring up the fact that even David Stern agrees with that.

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RollWithEm

If you reread every one of EH's posts, I'm confident you will see that he agrees with you on this point.

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But that's just me.

R-Star

He does now. He sure didn't to begin with.

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RollWithEm

I must be the crazy one, then. His very first post clearly states exactly what you asserted in your most recent example.

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But that's just me.

R-Star

That's in a reply to me saying flopping also included exaggerated contact.

I agree, you must be the crazy one. His post insinuates that if you square up for a charge, anything that happens from that is fine. That is what started the whole debate.

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E.H. Munro

No, you were reading it aright. R-star just likes to argue with me. Maybe he's afraid I want his Queen of the Interwebz title?

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

E.H. Munro

Do we have a face palm emoticon? At this point I'm too tired to explain it all over again. Suffice it to say if the NBA addresses the issue you're going to be disappointed because they're going to address the situations where there's little to no contact, because that's what they mean they're talking about flopping. Not taking charges.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

There's a emoticon.

"Charges! I'm only talking about charges!"

That would be fine, if you didn't quote me after I said "Flopping also includes exaggerated contact" to which you went on a diatribe (the one I just quoted a couple posts up) about how exaggerated contact doesn't count.

Look, I told you you'd change your argument after I didn't bite on your pathetic insults, and its exactly what you did.


Or maybe its just me trying to be king or queen of the internet. I mean, saying that will help you prove your argument right?

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E.H. Munro

My argument has been the same since the start of the thread. Establishing position and taking the hit from the offensive player isn't flopping. And when Stern says they're going to look at flopping that's not what they're talking about. They're talking about Ginobli, Fisher and the rest of the soccer stars that hit the deck after mystery contact. Having any luck finding journalists or anyone that called Bobby Jones a flopper yet? How about Lonnie Shelton? he was another guy that was great at drawing a charge and hitting the deck after.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

Again

No one ****ing knows who Bobby Jones or Lonnie Shelton are EH. You seem to think trying to bring up dinosaur basketball helps your case.

I can tell you I've seen 90's ball, and when most players went to draw a charge, they planted their feet, put their hands in front of their junk, and got a pat on the ass when they drew a clean foul.

They didn't explode like they were hit by a freight train.

And its funny, you can say your argument was this, or your argument was that, but again, you directly quoted me arguing that exaggerated contact isn't flopping. That seems pretty clear to me.

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E.H. Munro

And now I need a double face palm emoticon as you apparently didn't read the post at all. What was that line from Galaxy Quest? "Explain as you would to a little child." If your claim is true, no one would care about "flopping" at all because it's as old as the NBA itself. Probably older. Unfortunately for you that's not what they're talking about.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.