E.H. Munro

Your ignorance isn't an excuse.

And they hit the deck so that they didn't get called for a blocking foul. That's the reason for it. When a man hits you full speed the way to stand on your feet involves putting up resistance which sort of defeats the purpose of drawing a foul.

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If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

And again, no, it isn't. You try this shit all the time with the whole "I'm old! I know things!"

I watched 90's ball growing up. I've seen some 80's games on ESPN classic. Players were not convulsing all over the court like they do now when there was any contact.

Again I find it funny that I call you out on your tired insults "Everyone but me is dumb", but to anyone who knows you, it doesn't help your case.

You know what else doesn't help? "You know, I used to watch old Ezekiel Woolworth play, and he was worse than anyone today. And he won 8 quality defender awards, that's what we called em' back in the 60's" shut up. You seem to think because everyone else isn't old as balls that you can just bring up the past and that's the end of an argument.

Please, continue with the oh so weak insults though. "You're dumb! A middle school kid would...." yea great. Good one EH.

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R-Star

I guess since no one on here but you knows those players, we're all ignorant hey?


"No just you. blah blah blah, something something R-Star is stupid." Classic EH. Good work.

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hobojoe

Taking charges isn't an issue. It's legitimate defense. Exaggerating contact when there is little or none in an effort to deceive the officials is flopping and is not legitimate basketball. Don't we all agree with that? What's all the commotion about again?

R-Star

We'll say we all agree about that now. But originally we didn't.

I was told exaggerated contact isn't flopping. Now I'm told it is. Funny how that works.

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E.H. Munro

The reason RWE's confused at your argument is that it's such a simple point he doesn't understand how you can be missing it. I suppose I could try mockery and say something like, "What? You think Stern is going send out a fourth official to be the fashion official?" or "Are you of the opinion that the NBA will force teams to hire acting coaches to make certain the players look cool while drawing charges?" or "What do you think that Stern's going to do, send three minor celebrity judges to the sideline with a gong and orders to bang it when the fall is too hammy?"

Instead I'll just take the advice of the villain from Galaxy Quest and explain this as I would to a little child. See, the reason I guarantee you that Stern and the NBA don't give a damn about how players look when when drawing charges is because an actual foul occurred. See, it's not flopping if there's actually a foul. The problem is those plays when there isn't a foul and one or both guys are hitting the deck to fool the referee into calling one where none existed. That's what all of us with IQs over 70 mean when we talk about flopping. Not drawing charges.

Is Ron Artest a dirty SOB? Yep. Is he a space cadet? Yep. Is he a flopper? Nope. He establishes position and draws the contact. That's called drawing a charge. And players have been doing it the whole of my life. Yes, even hitting the deck, because that's what happens when you offer no resistance as someone runs into you. Unless we're talking about Spud Webb running into Oliver Miller the result of getting hit while offering no resistance is that you end up on your ass. If you offer resistance you risk getting called for a block, which defeats the purpose.

Now feel free to give us your standard angry diatribe about how everyone else is wrong even though you've put yourself in the ridiculous position of arguing that the NBA wants to institute their own fashion police. But, at the end of the day, it's not the fashion police they care about because there are no style points in basketball. What they're concerned with is players drawing fouls where none occurred, or drawing them while actually committing them (as in the Pietrus clip I posted).

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

E.H. Munro

Actually, at this point, you've changed your position, because this started with the claim that all cases where you felt that contact was exaggerated constituted flopping. Now you're essentially agreeing with me that when a defensive player establishes position and draws the contact that it's not a flop. And it isn't. No matter how inelegant they look while doing it.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

E.H. Munro

See, this is what I've been saying, and it's such a simple point I don't understand how people fail to grasp it. It ain't a flop if there was an actual foul.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

Uh no old man, it hasn't. My point has always been that exaggerated contact is flopping. I've brought that up multiple times to you but you'd rather talk on and on about Galaxy Quest, and try to insult my IQ.

Did you or did you not say exaggerated contact is not flopping?

Thanks for wasting everyone's time. It is what you do though.

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E.H. Munro

So you're now officially back to calling for an NBA Style Police? Well, sorry to disappoint you but that's not what the NBA's talking about.

And what I've said, from the very first post, is that it isn't flopping if there's an actual foul. Because the NBA doesn't give a shit about actual fouls. They really don't. It's the phantom calls that make the league look bad.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

Are you going to answer the question or continue to make a failed attempt at a joke?

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R-Star

Ah, I see you edited your post about 10 minutes after my initial reply. You're trying rather hard wouldn't you say?


And no. In your initial post you say "absorbing contact". How ambiguous a statement can you make?

I for one think most "contact" shouldn't even be a call in the NBA. I also think people trying to sell it like they got an arm sliced off when someone taps them on the wrist should get a foul and/or be fined.

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E.H. Munro

No, as I was writing it as I accidentally hit control s during its composition. It was posted as you were writing yours. vBB always assigns an "edit" tag if your post is edited more than five minutes later or if another post has been inserted in the meantime. The reason there's none on mine is that it was edited prior to your post.

And "absorbing contact" isn't ambiguous at all. Anyone that's ever played organized ball knows that that means you're in position with your feet set before the offensive man is in the air/arrives and take the contact. It's a flop when they blow by you and you hit the ground due to the force of the air pressure, or when they pivot and you throw yourself to the ground. Those are flops because there was no foul and you were attempting to convince the referee that a foul happened by hitting the deck.

__________________
If everyone loves you you're doing it wrong.

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

The Power of 99 Press

"He thinks it's going to be fun being governor. It's only fun being governor of New York if you have money to spend, and I spent it all." Nelson Rockefeller on his successor, Hugh Carey.

R-Star

Thanks for clarifying.

Going to clarify the question now?

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R-Star

Again with the adding more to your post after the initial reply eh?

Thanks for the lesson, but I played organized ball until I was around 20. Now, maybe we played in different circles, but when I played, if a guy hit you on the arm, or hand checked you when you were trying to back him up, it wasn't a call. And anyone who tried crying about a slap on the arm would know they could go **** themselves.

Its nice that you continue to refuse to talk about anything other than your set talking points though.

"Do you think exaggerated contact is flopping?"

I only want to talk about charges

"If a guy hits another players arm and they go sprawling like they were hit with a battering ram, is that a flop?"

I used to watch a player called Woodward Fairplay. We called him Woody for short. He used to exaggerate contact all the time.

"So he was a flopper?"

We're only talking about charges. No other questions please.


Talking in circles is fun, but I think I'll go to bed soon.

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