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**Kunlun** · 09-06-2005, 11:42 PM

This is great research man, you must've put in a lot of time for this.

truth · 09-26-2005, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ras

People always say Iverson's biggest fault is the amount of shots he takes. Well I did my homework, and this turns out to be not true. It seems the Sixers win more games when Iverson takes more shots.

2004-2005*

Less than 25 shot attempts: 18-20 / 47.4% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 39-43.

More than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 22-14 / 61.1% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 50-32.

More than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 9-3 / 75.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 62-20.

Some of you may believe that he's just shooting more in some games because he's actually hitting his shots, causing him to win more. Well that is not the case.

Less than 25 shot attempts: 335/789 - 42.5%

More than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 431/1018 - 42.3%

More than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 177/373 - 47.5%

So his field goal percentage for "less than" and "more than" 25 shot attempts are roughly the same, yet he wins more when he shoots more than 25 shot attempts. It does look as if when he takes 30+ shot attempts, he's really hitting his shots.

Now I wanted to make sure this wasn't just a one year fluke, so I did the same research for his entire career.

CAREER

Less than 25 shot attempts: 171-191 / 47.2% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 39-43.

More than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 141-101 / 58.3% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 48-34.

More than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 51-30 / 63.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 52-30.

So over his entire career, it follows roughly the same pattern. If Iverson shot roughly 25 or more shots per game for his entire career, he should theoretically have a better win-loss record than he currently has (312-292 / 51.7%).

Shot Average Per Season and Wins

1996-1997: 19.8 - 21-55 (27.6%)
1997-1998: 17.6 - 31-49 (38.8%)
1998-1999: 22.0 - 28-20 (58.3%)
1999-2000: 24.8 - 43-29 (61.4%)
2000-2001: 25.5 - 50-21 (70.4%)
2001-2002: 27.8 - 36-24 (60.0%)
2002-2003: 23.7 - 47-34 (57.3%)
2003-2004: 23.4 - 21-27 (43.8%)
2004-2005: 24.2 - 42-33 (56.0%)

So for the 4 seasons where he averaged 24 or more shot attempts, he had a combined record of 171-107 (61.5%) or an average season record of 50-32.

So therefore, Iverson shouldn't be criticized for taking so many shots, since he wins more if he chucks more.

I just recently talked to a poster in the Sixers forum, and they believe that the total shots isn't what makes Iverson hurt the team, it's the amount of plays begin and end with Iverson, so I'm going to dive into this matter a little bit deeper. I will be adding in the amount of assists and turnovers, since those are instances where the play would be beginning or ending with him.

2004-2005

Less than 6 assists: 5-11 / 31.3% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 26-56.

More than or equal to 6 assists: 35-23 / 60.3% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 50-32.

More than or equal to 10 assists: 15-8 / 65.2% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 54-28.

So now it's obvious that the more he passes, the more the team wins. Since he was talking possessions, I'll follow up by finding the win percentage with shots and assists intertwined.

Less than 6 assists with less than 25 shot attempts: 2-5 / 28.6% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 23-59.

Less than 6 assists with more than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 3-6 / 33.3% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 27-55.

No games were played where Iverson had less than 6 assists but more than, or equal to 30 shot attempts.

More than or equal to 6 assists with less than 25 shot attempts: 16-15 / 51.6% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 42-40.

More than or equal to 6 assists with more than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 19-8 / 70.4% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 58-24.

More than or equal to 6 assists with more than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 9-3 / 75.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 62-20.

More than or equal to 10 assists with less than 25 shot attempts: 6-4 / 60.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 49-33.

More than or equal to 10 assists with more than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 9-4 / 69.2% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 57-23.

More than or equal to 10 assists with more than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 3-0 / 100.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 82-0.

So now it shows that the more Iverson not only shoots, but has the ball in his hands leading to assists leads to an even more impressive win record. So pretty much, the more plays that begin and end with Iverson, the better the Sixers do.

I will be updating it again shortly to reflect the career numbers of this stat.

see my preliminary analysis on the Nets forum

**Kunlun** · 09-29-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truth

see my preliminary analysis on the Nets forum

Give us a link.

Auggie · 10-22-2005, 07:21 AM

good job

barondavis4life · 10-22-2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ras

People always say Iverson's biggest fault is the amount of shots he takes. Well I did my homework, and this turns out to be not true. It seems the Sixers win more games when Iverson takes more shots.

2004-2005*

Less than 25 shot attempts: 18-20 / 47.4% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 39-43.

More than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 22-14 / 61.1% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 50-32.

More than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 9-3 / 75.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 62-20.

Some of you may believe that he's just shooting more in some games because he's actually hitting his shots, causing him to win more. Well that is not the case.

Less than 25 shot attempts: 335/789 - 42.5%

More than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 431/1018 - 42.3%

More than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 177/373 - 47.5%

So his field goal percentage for "less than" and "more than" 25 shot attempts are roughly the same, yet he wins more when he shoots more than 25 shot attempts. It does look as if when he takes 30+ shot attempts, he's really hitting his shots.

Now I wanted to make sure this wasn't just a one year fluke, so I did the same research for his entire career.

CAREER

Less than 25 shot attempts: 171-191 / 47.2% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 39-43.

More than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 141-101 / 58.3% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 48-34.

More than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 51-30 / 63.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 52-30.

So over his entire career, it follows roughly the same pattern. If Iverson shot roughly 25 or more shots per game for his entire career, he should theoretically have a better win-loss record than he currently has (312-292 / 51.7%).

Shot Average Per Season and Wins

1996-1997: 19.8 - 21-55 (27.6%)
1997-1998: 17.6 - 31-49 (38.8%)
1998-1999: 22.0 - 28-20 (58.3%)
1999-2000: 24.8 - 43-29 (61.4%)
2000-2001: 25.5 - 50-21 (70.4%)
2001-2002: 27.8 - 36-24 (60.0%)
2002-2003: 23.7 - 47-34 (57.3%)
2003-2004: 23.4 - 21-27 (43.8%)
2004-2005: 24.2 - 42-33 (56.0%)

So for the 4 seasons where he averaged 24 or more shot attempts, he had a combined record of 171-107 (61.5%) or an average season record of 50-32.

So therefore, Iverson shouldn't be criticized for taking so many shots, since he wins more if he chucks more.

I just recently talked to a poster in the Sixers forum, and they believe that the total shots isn't what makes Iverson hurt the team, it's the amount of plays begin and end with Iverson, so I'm going to dive into this matter a little bit deeper. I will be adding in the amount of assists and turnovers, since those are instances where the play would be beginning or ending with him.

2004-2005

Less than 6 assists: 5-11 / 31.3% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 26-56.

More than or equal to 6 assists: 35-23 / 60.3% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 50-32.

More than or equal to 10 assists: 15-8 / 65.2% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 54-28.

So now it's obvious that the more he passes, the more the team wins. Since he was talking possessions, I'll follow up by finding the win percentage with shots and assists intertwined.

Less than 6 assists with less than 25 shot attempts: 2-5 / 28.6% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 23-59.

Less than 6 assists with more than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 3-6 / 33.3% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 27-55.

No games were played where Iverson had less than 6 assists but more than, or equal to 30 shot attempts.

More than or equal to 6 assists with less than 25 shot attempts: 16-15 / 51.6% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 42-40.

More than or equal to 6 assists with more than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 19-8 / 70.4% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 58-24.

More than or equal to 6 assists with more than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 9-3 / 75.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 62-20.

More than or equal to 10 assists with less than 25 shot attempts: 6-4 / 60.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 49-33.

More than or equal to 10 assists with more than or equal to 25 shot attempts: 9-4 / 69.2% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 57-23.

More than or equal to 10 assists with more than or equal to 30 shot attempts: 3-0 / 100.0% - Over an 82 game stretch, that equals a record of roughly 82-0.

So now it shows that the more Iverson not only shoots, but has the ball in his hands leading to assists leads to an even more impressive win record. So pretty much, the more plays that begin and end with Iverson, the better the Sixers do.

I will be updating it again shortly to reflect the career numbers of this stat.

excellent analysis and this should shut up all the iverson haters

LameR · 10-23-2005, 04:05 PM

I only glanced a bit, but it seems to also show they play well when he gets his assists.

jv93 · 01-02-2006, 04:12 PM

http://mb5.scout.com/fkansasinsiderf...tart=1&stop=20

We're discussing Allen Iverson vs John Stockton and Isiah Thomas (and other 'small' ballers).

jv93

jv93 · 01-02-2006, 04:15 PM

NOTE: I LOVE ALLEN IVERSON - BUT HERE IS SOME INTERESTING DATA THAT I 'CONJURED UP'.

I think I need to put my original position (FROM THE OTHER BOARD (WWW.PHOG.NET)) out there again since I've been the #1 anti-Iverson poster in this thread:
1. I think Allen Iverson is an amazingly talented player and perhaps one of the top 10 talented players of all time (in the making - if not already).
2. But to place him ahead of players like Isiah and Stockton who made their teammates much better would be a huge misunderstanding of the game of basketball IMHO.

1997 - 19.8 field goal attempts per game - (23.5ppg) - 1.19 points per shot
1998 - 17.6 field goal attempts per game - (22.0ppg) - 1.25 points per shot
1999 - 22.0 field goal attempts per game - (26.8ppg) - 1.22 points per shot
2000 - 24.8 field goal attempts per game - (28.4ppg) - 1.15 points per shot
2001 - 25.5 field goal attempts per game - (31.1ppg) - 1.22 points per shot
2002 - 27.8 field goal attempts per game - (31.4ppg) - 1.13 points per shot
2003 - 23.7 field goal attempts per game - (27.6ppg) - 1.16 points per shot
2004 - **INJURED MOST OF YEAR** 23.4 field goal attempts per game - (26.4ppg) - 1.13 points per shot
2005 - 24.2 field goal attempts per game - (30.7ppg) - 1.27 points per shot

Iverson's best 'Point per Shot' year was the year (2005) he took only 24.2 shots per game. This is only the 4th most per game in his career.

Iverson's WORST 'Point per Shot' year was the year (2002) that he took the MOST shots per game (27.8 shots per game).

Interesting stuff?

Iverson's teams have won 6 playoff series.
Iverson's teams have lost 6 playoff series.
Iverson's teams have failed to make it beyond the first round of the NBA playoffs more times than they have made it past the first round of the playoffs (5 times out of only 9 chances).
Iverson's teams have only made it past the 2nd round of the NBA playoffs 1 times out of 9 chances.

In 2002 when Iverson took his most shots per game ... Iverson's Sixers lost in the first round of the NBA playoffs (Boston).

PERHAPS THE MOST TELLING ALLEN IVERSON STATISTIC:
The year after Iverson took the MOST shots per game 2002, not only did he signed his MASSIVE contract extension (there are only 3 NBA players paid more than him by their team (Shaq, KG, CWeb (Iverson's teammate)) ... but his shots per game dropped to it's lowest level since his 3rd year in the league. I believe Philadelphia has won only on e playoff GAME since signing his massive salary extension.

Blink4 · 01-02-2006, 07:15 PM

Wonder what would come up if we did the research for the same stats with Kobe, Tmac, Vince etc.

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