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**Dissonance19** · 12-05-2005, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavericks_Fan

Here's another interesting statistic:

Record against teams at least .500

vs Dallas -- Loss
vs Detroit -- Loss
vs Golden State -- Win
vs Memphis -- Loss
vs San Antonio -- Loss
vs Indiana -- Win
vs Denver -- Win

Phoenix is 3-4 against winning teams. Interestingly enough, Phoenix has also only played 4 road games compared to 11 home games.

yeah but if you watched the games, looked at the scores or even listed them, we've been in all those games till the end except Memphis game. Besides, almost anyone can beat anyone at anytime.

**Seuss** · 12-05-2005, 05:04 PM

The Suns did follow that up with a 6-straight winning spree(Which they will continue against the Blazers)

Chaos · 12-05-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibikao

Thank you! We needed this.

Suns have held opponent shooting to only 39-42%. Oh yeah, the opponent scored "more" but that's only because the pace of the game is a lot faster.

Suns is the not the #1 defensive team but they are a lot better now with good defensive players and bench. Starters don't need to worry too much about getting into foul trouble. When Amare comes back, I don't think our defense will be too bad since we got Kurt Thomas to help Amare out. That's the point of the trade.

Defense wise, I think we are doing just fine. Our offense is great but not in 4th quarter. That's where we miss Amare the most. We need some sort of inside game to slow the game down. Kurt Thomas is not a very good post player.

And when Amare comes back, I think our shooters may be able to shoot even better since it spreads the floor even more. Now we are just sharing the ball really well. Team assist is great.

I honestly don't know how healthy Amare can be when he comes back. Hopefully he can be at least 75% of what he was last season.

And I have said that. They are better defensively because of the players they added in the offseason(defense first guys). That being said, they are still below average defensively. They simply cannot get a stop when they need it.

mff4l · 12-06-2005, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tempe85

HAHAHAHHA............. wow you think PAPG is the most important statistic? Oh my friggen goodness.... wow... I'll have to write that down.. Don't you even understand that Efficiency rating is based off of Points Allowed Per Game? It factors in posessions also which is extremely important when rating a defense. But I guess believe whatever floats your boat, your choice.

By the way guess where your Mavericks rank in team defensive efficiency? Just guess?

19th...... 15 spots below the now defensive potent Suns. I guess Avery Johnson, nor God, can make Dallas into a good defensive team. You'd think they'd try what the Suns did to improve (bring in players that play defense instead of trying to make crappy ones good)... but apparently not. No wonder you think PAPG is the most important statistic.. because in the stat that really matters the Mavs are lightyears behind the Suns. I might fool myself into believing that too.

dude i just really really don't think you believe that the suns are a better defensive team than the mavs right?

Do you honestly truly think that starting boris diaw at center is "good defense" then go figure.

The mavs have held good teams like the pistons, spurs (2 times), heat, and a few other teams to 90 points or less.

I see alot of high scoring games for the suns once again showing me that yall play an up tempo highscoring game and all this magical defense is bs.

especially with diaw at center

did I mention diaw at center?

oh ok. thought so. once again suns fans will say they play d when it counts. the suns have only really played about 3 or 4 good teams this year. the rest have been trash.

To be honest I hate these efficiency stat ratings. They don't tell anything. good "D" is what the mavs did to the pacers tonight with their best perimeter defender in street clothes

good d is when diop wins a game for the mavs by blocking melo's game winning layup. good d is winning games when you can't score (like the mavs have) in games where they haven't even broken 85 points

can you watch a game before opening your mouth?

the suns are much better defensively than last year. guys like bell and co are helping but DIAW AT CENTER is not the answer. smoke n mirrors

tempe85 · 12-06-2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mff4l

dude i just really really don't think you believe that the suns are a better defensive team than the mavs right?

Do you honestly truly think that starting boris diaw at center is "good defense" then go figure.

The mavs have held good teams like the pistons, spurs (2 times), heat, and a few other teams to 90 points or less.

I see alot of high scoring games for the suns once again showing me that yall play an up tempo highscoring game and all this magical defense is bs.

especially with diaw at center

did I mention diaw at center?

oh ok. thought so. once again suns fans will say they play d when it counts. the suns have only really played about 3 or 4 good teams this year. the rest have been trash.

To be honest I hate these efficiency stat ratings. They don't tell anything. good "D" is what the mavs did to the pacers tonight with their best perimeter defender in street clothes

good d is when diop wins a game for the mavs by blocking melo's game winning layup. good d is winning games when you can't score (like the mavs have) in games where they haven't even broken 85 points

can you watch a game before opening your mouth?

the suns are much better defensively than last year. guys like bell and co are helping but DIAW AT CENTER is not the answer. smoke n mirrors

Wow this is complete and utter nonsense. I think my IQ went down a couple points after reading your post.

So your main reasoning that the Suns are bad at defense? Diaw's playing center. Wow.. that's low especially when Diaw is playing unbelievable this year. And I'm sorry using statistics is against your religion or something but if so then don't comment on a thread dealing with stats. According to 82games.com Diaw has a team high +/- rating of 22.9 which is also probably one of the best in the entire league. Oh and by the way Thomas logs in quite a bit of minutes at center at well... yes Diaw does play there sometimes but that's only because he is effective playing there (he's a great defender).

I know a big stereotype was created last year when the Suns didn't play much defense. However times have changed and people like you fail to realize that simple fact. The Suns are now one of the top defensive teams in the league whether you like it or not. Again they are currently ranked 4th in the league, which may have gone up after today's shellocking of Portland, Dallas meanwhile can't defend a lamp, just like usual.

By the way Diaw at Center > Dampier + Diop

Chaos · 12-07-2005, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tempe85

Wow this is complete and utter nonsense. I think my IQ went down a couple points after reading your post.

So your main reasoning that the Suns are bad at defense? Diaw's playing center. Wow.. that's low especially when Diaw is playing unbelievable this year. And I'm sorry using statistics is against your religion or something but if so then don't comment on a thread dealing with stats. According to 82games.com Diaw has a team high +/- rating of 22.9 which is also probably one of the best in the entire league. Oh and by the way Thomas logs in quite a bit of minutes at center at well... yes Diaw does play there sometimes but that's only because he is effective playing there (he's a great defender).

I know a big stereotype was created last year when the Suns didn't play much defense. However times have changed and people like you fail to realize that simple fact. The Suns are now one of the top defensive teams in the league whether you like it or not. Again they are currently ranked 4th in the league, which may have gone up after today's shellocking of Portland, Dallas meanwhile can't defend a lamp, just like usual.

By the way Diaw at Center > Dampier + Diop

No, the Suns are not the 4th best defensive team in the league. They give up 96.9 points a game, good for 19th. Any team with Steve Nash running the point isn't a good defensive team, since he cant guard anything to save his life. Meanwhile, the Mavs sit at giving up 93.1 points a game, good enough for 9th in the league. Argue all you want about defensive efficiency, but in the one stat that determines the outcome of games, the Suns are in the lower half of the league, while the Mavs are in the top 10(with their best defender in street clothes the past week and a half).

carrrnuttt · 12-07-2005, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos

No, the Suns are not the 4th best defensive team in the league. They give up 96.9 points a game, good for 19th. Any team with Steve Nash running the point isn't a good defensive team, since he cant guard anything to save his life. Meanwhile, the Mavs sit at giving up 93.1 points a game, good enough for 9th in the league. Argue all you want about defensive efficiency, but in the one stat that determines the outcome of games, the Suns are in the lower half of the league, while the Mavs are in the top 10(with their best defender in street clothes the past week and a half).

LMAO @ Mavs fans, of all people, trying to use this rationale over and over again.

Let me explain this to you carefully, child...

There's this thing called "possessions-per-game", which is affected by the "game-pace" see.

Your Mavericks might be "only" giving-up an average of 93.11 points-per-game(PPG), but they are also "only" scoring an average of 97.94 PPG, for a point differential of +4.83. It seems like they are playing considerably better defense, because they have slowed-down their game considerably, or they are allowing themselves to be slowed down - one or the other.

The Suns, on the other hand, might be giving up 96.87 PPG to this date, but they are also averaging a flat 105.00 PPG - good for a whopping +8.12 points differential between them and their opponents. They are only behind Detroit at +8.20, and San Antonio at +8.17. Even Memphis, who has blown-out quite a few opponents this year, is averaging a +6.38 in point-differential.

Oh, and if you only count the last ten games, where Phoenix finally started getting it together, after suffering their only blowout loss so far in the season, they have held opponents to 92.4 PPG, while Dallas has held opponents to 93.00 PPG. They are also averaging +10.70 in differential, while Dallas is averaging +6.30.

Is that better, or should I break out the crayons?

Chaos · 12-07-2005, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

LMAO @ Mavs fans, of all people, trying to use this rationale over and over again.

Let me explain this to you carefully, child...

There's this thing called "possessions-per-game", which is affected by the "game-pace" see.

Your Mavericks might be "only" giving-up an average of 93.11 points-per-game(PPG), but they are also "only" scoring an average of 97.94 PPG, for a point differential of +4.83. It seems like they are playing considerably better defense, because they have slowed-down their game considerably, or they are allowing themselves to be slowed down - one or the other.

The Suns, on the other hand, might be giving up 96.87 PPG to this date, but they are also averaging a flat 105.00 PPG - good for a whopping +8.12 points differential between them and their opponents. They are only behind Detroit at +8.20, and San Antonio at +8.17. Even Memphis, who has blown-out quite a few opponents this year, is averaging a +6.38 in point-differential.

Oh, and if you only count the last ten games, where Phoenix finally started getting it together, after suffering their only blowout loss so far in the season, they have held opponents to 92.4 PPG, while Dallas has held opponents to 93.00 PPG. They are also averaging +10.70 in differential, while Dallas is averaging +6.30.

Is that better, or should I break out the crayons?

In the end, what determines the outcome of games? What is on the scoreboard? Its points. Plain and simple. You can argue about defensive efficiency until you're blue in the face, but its not going to change anything. To me, other than points, the best determination of defense is getting stops(meaning forcing turnovers/bad shots) when the game is on the line. The Suns couldnt do that this year, and from what I've seen this year, they still can't.

Amareca · 12-07-2005, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos

In the end, what determines the outcome of games? What is on the scoreboard? Its points. Plain and simple. You can argue about defensive efficiency until you're blue in the face, but its not going to change anything. To me, other than points, the best determination of defense is getting stops(meaning forcing turnovers/bad shots) when the game is on the line. The Suns couldnt do that this year, and from what I've seen this year, they still can't.

Don't need that against the Mavs anyway.

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