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Chaos · 12-07-2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Main Man

So I guess you think the Magic, Jazz, and Rockets are better defensive teams than the Mavs, right? Since they all hold teams to lower scoring games than the Mavs.

Yes, they are. What, you think Im going to argue against myself?

**ChrisWoj** · 12-07-2005, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos

Your numbers are wrong. Phoenix forces 15.9 turnovers/game. Dallas forces 13.9 turnovers/game. Doesnt change the fact that the Suns can't stop anyone in crunch time.

... That was just idiotic nitpicking. Different people use different sources. His source or your source might be operating a day behind, thus accounting for the difference. Don't be a dip**** over the little things and stick to the argument at hand.

As for the argument at hand... Concerning the difference between Defensive Efficiency and Defensive PPG...

1. We are still VERY early in the season. Presently, as has been stated, Dallas and Phoenix have played drastically different schedules. Until we've at least come into the start of the fourth month, nothing means anything. Not Defensive PPG and not Defensive Efficiency.

2. Concerning which stat to use, as I said it is still early and schedules are different, so they are both useless. But once the season is coming to a close, I would take defensive efficiency as the statistic of choice to determine the better defensive team any day of the week. DPPG may give you the final number on the scoreboard, of course. But the fact remains that DPPG does NOT tell the entire story of the game. Once the season comes to a close... defensive ppg just doesn't tell you as much about the team as defensive efficiency does. By combining points given up with the amount of possessions the opposition had the ball, you can truly comprehend just how efficient the defensive stoppers on a team are.

Note that I'm not giving an opinion either way concerning whether Phoenix or Dallas is better defensively (for my money I'll take Dallas, though I think Diaw is far better at the 5 than one poster seemed to think). I am merely stating why Defensive Efficiency tells the true tale once it is all said and done, far better than DPPG.

Do you understand yet where we are coming from, Chaos?

-Chris.

ToddMacCulloch11 · 12-07-2005, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaNet

Amare is an atrocious defender. One of the worst big men defenders I have ever seen. He's a god on offense, no doubt. But when you put him on the court for 40 minutes and take off a good defender, your defense gets alot worse. Does that help understand where I'm coming from?

and argument saying you're wrong because you don't agree coming in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....

Chaos · 12-07-2005, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj

... That was just idiotic nitpicking. Different people use different sources. His source or your source might be operating a day behind, thus accounting for the difference. Don't be a dip**** over the little things and stick to the argument at hand.

As for the argument at hand... Concerning the difference between Defensive Efficiency and Defensive PPG...

1. We are still VERY early in the season. Presently, as has been stated, Dallas and Phoenix have played drastically different schedules. Until we've at least come into the start of the fourth month, nothing means anything. Not Defensive PPG and not Defensive Efficiency.

2. Concerning which stat to use, as I said it is still early and schedules are different, so they are both useless. But once the season is coming to a close, I would take defensive efficiency as the statistic of choice to determine the better defensive team any day of the week. DPPG may give you the final number on the scoreboard, of course. But the fact remains that DPPG does NOT tell the entire story of the game. Once the season comes to a close... defensive ppg just doesn't tell you as much about the team as defensive efficiency does. By combining points given up with the amount of possessions the opposition had the ball, you can truly comprehend just how efficient the defensive stoppers on a team are.

Note that I'm not giving an opinion either way concerning whether Phoenix or Dallas is better defensively (for my money I'll take Dallas, though I think Diaw is far better at the 5 than one poster seemed to think). I am merely stating why Defensive Efficiency tells the true tale once it is all said and done, far better than DPPG.

Do you understand yet where we are coming from, Chaos?

-Chris.

Oh believe me, I see where you are coming from. I simply dont agree with it. Thats just how it is. I also agree with you that its far too early to be making judgements.

Gambino · 12-07-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tempe85

19th...... 15 spots below the now defensive potent Suns. I guess Avery Johnson, nor God, can make Dallas into a good defensive team. You'd think they'd try what the Suns did to improve (bring in players that play defense instead of trying to make crappy ones good)... but apparently not. No wonder you think PAPG is the most important statistic.. because in the stat that really matters the Mavs are lightyears behind the Suns. I might fool myself into believing that too.

Are you talking about fg percentages. Because I agree, that is one of the more important defensive statistics. BUT, guess whos the best defensive team in the NBA right now. Is it, the Los Angeles Clippers? Yep. The Mavs are 17th now. Guess whos just 1 spot above them at 16. The Detroit Pistons. Nobody in there right mind would argue that they are the 16th best defensive team in the NBA. There are more important stats to determine how great a defense is. Not just the defensive field goal percentages. Also, yes, Phoenix has greatly improved on defense and look very impressive doing so.

Rocket · 12-07-2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos

And they are tied for 22nd in the most important defensive statistic, points per game(97.7). Definately an improvement over last season. Having Amare out seems to have actually improved their defense a bit.

I believe the most important defensive statistic is Opponents FG%...Opp. PPG can be misleading because it can be more indicative of the style a team plays more so than their actual defensive ability...

by the way, (to the poster of the original topic) where did you find out about 'defensive efficiency' and all that? is there a site for that kinda stuff?

Chaos · 12-08-2005, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket

I believe the most important defensive statistic is Opponents FG%...Opp. PPG can be misleading because it can be more indicative of the style a team plays more so than their actual defensive ability...

by the way, (to the poster of the original topic) where did you find out about 'defensive efficiency' and all that? is there a site for that kinda stuff?

FG% can also be indicitive of style of play. As an example, if a team(say the Suns) gets up on you early, alot of times you will start jacking up shots quickly to try and come back. Often times, they aren't exactly great shots. We saw it last year when the Mavs and Suns played in the playoffs. The Suns would go on a run, and for some reason, the Mavs would stop playing their own game and just start jacking up quick shots.

Amareca · 12-08-2005, 10:03 AM

lol

This ist just too funny.

Chaos · 12-08-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amareca

lol

This ist just too funny.

Thanks for your well thought out response. Now shouldnt you be at school right now son?

**Premier** · 12-08-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket

I believe the most important defensive statistic is Opponents FG%...Opp. PPG can be misleading because it can be more indicative of the style a team plays more so than their actual defensive ability...

by the way, (to the poster of the original topic) where did you find out about 'defensive efficiency' and all that? is there a site for that kinda stuff?

The opponent's offensive rating is the best defensive statistic, in my opinion. Lesser statistics include opponent's points per possession and opponent eFG%.

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