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**ghoti** · 04-03-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMJigga

Give the ball to vince.

If you're not vince, go to the other side of the court.

Hope the ball goes in.

It takes a minimum of two years to learn that, and that's if the player has been out of college for at least three seasons.

spork65 · 04-04-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghoti

Is anyone here comfortable with the Nets building for the future around RJ and/or Krstic, because right now, that's the situation.

Depends on what you mean by "around". Can a team with RJ and Krstic as it's 2 best players win a championship? No. Can a team win a championship with them as 2 of their starters? I think so. It depends on who the rest of the guys turn out to be. That's why I'm in favor of picking up a low 1st rounder (or 2nd rounder) in the draft if we can, though we don't have to trade down to do it. It increases our chances of striking gold, and we wouldn't have to mortgage the future to do it.

spork65 · 04-04-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarionBarberThe4th

Theyd be crazy to trade Marion

If thats the choice, dump Diaw and Kurt Thomas maybe

Diaw is due another $45M coming off a sub-par season so he's too much of a risk. Thomas has one year left so they'll probably wait him out. Dealing with Phoenix is intriguing because of their salary situation, plus 3 1st round picks next year equals 3 more guaranteed contracts which I'm sure they don't want. The problem with acquiring most of their good players is we don't have the contracts to match up in a trade unless we trade one of the Big Three, which seems unlikely. To me their most "gettable" assets (for us) are Raja Bell and one of their low 1st rounders. Maybe for a coupla Robinsons and cash.

**ghoti** · 04-04-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spork65

Depends on what you mean by "around". Can a team with RJ and Krstic as it's 2 best players win a championship? No. Can a team win a championship with them as 2 of their starters?

By "build around", I mean structure the team to compliment the best player.

You have to identify that player first, then build from there.

Collecting the other components and then trying to find a star player to fit them is nearly impossible and a great way to never win anything.

spork65 · 04-04-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghoti

By "build around", I mean structure the team to compliment the best player.

You have to identify that player first, then build from there.

Collecting the other components and then trying to find a star player to fit them is nearly impossible and a great way to never win anything.

That's a great point and I've never thought of that before. I can't think of a championship team whose clearly best players were acquired after their supporting cast. Though who would have expected that you could build a championship team "around" Billups, Hamilton, and Ben Wallace until Rasheed and Prince came along, but that seems more and more like the exception that proves the rule.

You're right. Let's blow this mother****er up.

**ghoti** · 04-04-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spork65

That's a great point and I've never thought of that before. I can't think of a championship team whose clearly best players were acquired after their supporting cast. Though who would have expected that you could build a championship team "around" Billups, Hamilton, and Ben Wallace until Rasheed and Prince came along, but that seems more and more like the exception that proves the rule.

You have cited a terrific example of why it's important to build a team beginning with one player and staying focused on that player's strengths defining your team's identity.

Their best player was Ben Wallace, they steadfastly added only players that would compliment him, they all believed they could win playing in that kind of system, and they won a title.

And now he's gone, and all those players are still thriving in that system because they play as a team with a defined identity and never waiver from that.

spork65 · 04-04-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghoti

You have cited a terrific example of why it's important to build a team beginning with one player and staying focused on that player's strengths defining your team's identity.

Their best player was Ben Wallace, they steadfastly added only players that would compliment him, they all believed they could win playing in that kind of system, and they won a title.

And now he's gone, and all those players are still thriving in that system because they play as a team with a defined identity and never waiver from that.

You mean even my exception isn't even really an exception? Damn, ghoti you are schooling me today

Even the no-superstar Pistons were built around a player who was at least dominant in some aspect, so you're right about that. I don't think RJ and Nenad are dominant in any aspect.

I guess the reason to hang on to guys like RJ and Nenad is the hope that they can end up being the Jerry Stackhouse/Elden Campbell/Eddie Jones/Lamar Odom-type quality asset you can use to acquire a true superstar sometime down the line. And in that sense you can "build around" them even if they're just a means to an end. The risk is that if they're not given a team context where they can shine (or, as you seem to think, they're just not that good), they won't end up even being valuable as assets. I admit I'm torn, mostly because of injuries.

**ghoti** · 04-04-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spork65

You mean even my exception isn't even really an exception? Damn, ghoti you are schooling me today

Even the no-superstar Pistons were built around a player who was at least dominant in some aspect, so you're right about that. I don't think RJ and Nenad are dominant in any aspect.

I guess the reason to hang on to guys like RJ and Nenad is the hope that they can end up being the Jerry Stackhouse/Elden Campbell/Eddie Jones/Lamar Odom-type quality asset you can use to acquire a true superstar sometime down the line. And in that sense you can "build around" them even if they're just a means to an end. The risk is that if they're not given a team context where they can shine (or, as you seem to think, they're just not that good), they won't end up even being valuable as assets. I admit I'm torn, mostly because of injuries.

LOL.

Not schooling, just having a discussion!

The Nets should not be eager to rid themselves of quality players like RJ or Nenad, but they really need a special player with which to rebuild.

If they still think they can win next season with Kidd or Carter as the focal point, then they should choose one and go with that for the short-term.

Unfortunately, that will likely lead to the team being abysmal at the same time as the move to Brooklyn.

If they want to be good by then, they have to start the rebuilding process right now.

**Netted** · 04-04-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghoti

You have cited a terrific example of why it's important to build a team beginning with one player and staying focused on that player's strengths defining your team's identity.

Their best player was Ben Wallace, they steadfastly added only players that would compliment him, they all believed they could win playing in that kind of system, and they won a title.

And now he's gone, and all those players are still thriving in that system because they play as a team with a defined identity and never waiver from that.

So this begs the question, do you build the parts around a specific player or an identity?

I'm a firm believer in the team concept so I say the identity. Spurs are built on an identity and as long as Pop is there I believe they will continue that identity long after Duncan. If the Nets can build (should I say re-build) that identity around Kidd it can last beyond the next 2 years of Kidd's effectiveness. Players like RJ, Nenad, Wright, eventually Boone and even Boki in a defined role, fit that identity. There are certain players on the team, that while talented, probably resist that identity.

**ghoti** · 04-04-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netted

So this begs the question, do you build the parts around a specific player or an identity?

I'm a firm believer in the team concept so I say the identity. Spurs are built on an identity and as long as Pop is there I believe they will continue that identity long after Duncan. If the Nets can build (should I say re-build) that identity around Kidd it can last beyond the next 2 years of Kidd's effectiveness. Players like RJ, Nenad, Wright, eventually Boone and even Boki in a defined role, fit that identity. There are certain players on the team, that while talented, probably resist that identity.

You aren't getting a group of NBA players to buy into an identity unless they recognize a superstar at the center of it.

Plus, without the player, you really don't know what the identity is.

The NBA is a player's league. Coaches do not steer the fortunes of franchises. Even the great ones.

D'Antoni is a brilliant coach who identified a player to build around Colangelo built around him flawlessly.

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