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**cpawfan** · 05-15-2007, 09:33 AM

Will everyone just please agree that Vince is Vince and he isn't changing?

Now the debate about the details of what Vince is would consume several 1000 posts, a few tears and a lot of hurt feelings and likely provide me the opportunity to suspend a few posters, but Vince is Vince and he isn't changing.

**Kidd Karma** · 05-15-2007, 09:43 AM

Frank gave him another opportunity.....when is Frank going to learn, let Kidd playmake and setup at least a shot.

**NetIncome** · 05-15-2007, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpawfan

Will everyone just please agree that Vince is Vince and he isn't changing?

Now the debate about the details of what Vince is would consume several 1000 posts, a few tears and a lot of hurt feelings and likely provide me the opportunity to suspend a few posters, but Vince is Vince and he isn't changing.

He is who he is...and he is not who people want him to be. He is not MJ, he is not Kobe, he is not Wade. That's the bottom line. I am happy with who he is.

As to whether he is worth $10 million, $14 million or $18 million, it ain't my money and if Ratner wants to go over the luxury tax to do it, believing he needs him to sell the arena, fine. Ratner expects the Nets to make money in Brooklyn...a LOT of money. Hope he is right.

The Nets went to the Finals two years in a row because they were a good team in a bad conference. Blaming him or anyone for the Nets inability to reach the Finals again is just silly. The East of 2002 and 2003 didn't have Shaq or Lebron or Rasheed, for that matter. It was no accident that Thorn begged Atlanta not to trade Rasheed to Detroit in mid season.

And by the way, teams have come back from 3-1 deficits. This discussion should be put on hold til it's over.

purplehaze89 · 05-15-2007, 10:05 AM

This thread is pointless. Nobody, unless they are plain insane, believes that Vince is the equivalent of a Kobe or Wade. Vince is what he is, a perennial all-star who fits well on this team. I sincerely blame the coach for allowing Vince to handle the ball 100 times in the 4th quarter when it CLEARLY DOES NOT WORK. He is not the ball-handler our crackhead coach makes him out to be. Why is the ball not in Kidd's hand I ask.

bluecro · 05-15-2007, 10:06 AM

Vince is Vince your are right. Hes not like Kobe he is like Vince. Vince isent very clutch and isent worth as much as paid. Still a top 15 player in the leauge.

**NetIncome** · 05-15-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluecro

Vince is Vince your are right. Hes not like Kobe he is like Vince. Vince isent very clutch and isent worth as much as paid. Still a top 15 player in the leauge.

The market determines what he is worth.

**cpawfan** · 05-15-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetIncome

The Nets went to the Finals two years in a row because they were a good team in a bad conference. Blaming him or anyone for the Nets inability to reach the Finals again is just silly. The East of 2002 and 2003 didn't have Shaq or Lebron or Rasheed, for that matter. It was no accident that Thorn begged Atlanta not to trade Rasheed to Detroit in mid season.

Those Nets teams were presented with several opportunities to fold and didn't until game 7 against Detroit in 2004. The bottom and the middle of the East now is just as bad as it was then. The difference is at the top and the Nets Front Office has failed in their attempts to add the pieces needed to join the teams at the top.

Lets not forget that the Dumars wanted Rasheed because he knew he needed a second big man to get past the Nets.

Quote:

And by the way, teams have come back from 3-1 deficits. This discussion should be put on hold til it's over.

This is true, but has nothing to do with the topic.

**cpawfan** · 05-15-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplehaze89

This thread is pointless. Nobody, unless they are plain insane, believes that Vince is the equivalent of a Kobe or Wade.

I can pull up the threads if you'd like to call these posters insane.

Quote:

Vince is what he is, a perennial all-star who fits well on this team.

You'll get a lot of disagreement about the fit.

Quote:

I sincerely blame the coach for allowing Vince to handle the ball 100 times in the 4th quarter when it CLEARLY DOES NOT WORK. He is not the ball-handler our crackhead coach makes him out to be. Why is the ball not in Kidd's hand I ask.

Good question

**cpawfan** · 05-15-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetIncome

The market determines what he is worth.

Damn, that sounds very familiar

Every player should go for all the money they can get.

**NetIncome** · 05-15-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpawfan

Those Nets teams were presented with several opportunities to fold and didn't until game 7 against Detroit in 2004. The bottom and the middle of the East now is just as bad as it was then. The difference is at the top and the Nets Front Office has failed in their attempts to add the pieces needed to join the teams at the top.

Lets not forget that the Dumars wanted Rasheed because he knew he needed a second big man to get past the Nets.

I wouldnt disagree with that but blaming it on Carter as others have--the point of my post--is silly. Thorn had a golden opportunity. No GM would have passed on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpawfan

This is true, but has nothing to do with the topic.

Here I do disagree. The tone of today's posts is all about what the Nets will do in the post-season, not just about the frustration with last night.
If by chance the Nets did come back from a 3-1 deficit, and Carter is the hero, that tone would no doubt change. (I am not saying either is likely).

**cpawfan** · 05-15-2007, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetIncome

Here I do disagree. The tone of today's posts is all about what the Nets will do in the post-season, not just about the frustration with last night.
If by chance the Nets did come back from a 3-1 deficit, and Carter is the hero, that tone would no doubt change. (I am not saying either is likely).

I've been saying for some time that Vince is Vince and since everyone has been posting about him I brought this back up. Vince having stretches of good games is all a apart of Vince is Vince.

dunbladekilla · 05-15-2007, 10:59 AM

vince is vince. i never expected him to change his fadeaway frenzy style. i feel like, as a player, vince is on the decline and his descent into total and complete mediocrity will not take long. he clearly is starting to lose his legs and youthful vigor. as he gets older, he's going to shoot more and more fadeaways until that becomes his entire game. heck, it's already almost his entire game.
i don't understand why ratner would want to sign him as some type of fan draw or Brooklyn. by the time the Nets make it to Brooklyn, Carter is not gonna be a highlight guy at all. not to mention that the Nets still have one of the worst attendance records in all of the NBA. it's not like this guy is filling the stands.
time to cut ties... although i wouldn't be surprised at all to see Vince not opt-out and take that 16+ mill thats there for the taking. i'm not sure there's any team out there who wants vince carter. especially at the 15+ mill a year that he would probably ask for. the guys worth 10 or 11 million a year, TOPS. hes a fools gold player whos on the decline and GMs arent blind to that.

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