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**BEEZ** · 01-31-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB

^but everyone of those guys sees shots like that. Lets not act like the Hawks dont have a talented team. RAy is on the best team in the East, I mean the way players have been selected to the game in the past few seasons have used team records to a certain extent. Ray should be on the team based on the fact that he is on the team with the best record in the league and an integral member of that team

Vince Carter sees a lot of last minute shots as the shot clock is dying, thats not affecting his percentage is it. Dont tell me that JJ's shots as the shot clock is dying is the reason for his poor shooting percentage.

I have to search ATLien's post where he has Joe Johnson having the most 24 second shots in the league. Hes a volume scorer I know, but his FG percentage being this low is somewhat of abberation. HB thats a bad trend to start if you would put Ray on the team based on those standards.

HB · 01-31-2008, 06:17 PM

I am just going by what the coaches have been doing the last few years. Remember when they had most of the Pistons starting five on the bench, same thing with Phoenix for the past few years. They seem to reward teams with good records with spots instead of picking based on individual stats

**BEEZ** · 01-31-2008, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HB

I am just going by what the coaches have been doing the last few years. Remember when they had most of the Pistons starting five on the bench, same thing with Phoenix for the past few years. They seem to reward teams with good records with spots instead of picking based on individual stats

You definitley have a point there, and I was pissing a fit when they did that too.

undefined_playa · 01-31-2008, 07:28 PM

i'm suprprised noone has said anything about rip hamilton...his numbers don't seem so great

**BEEZ** · 01-31-2008, 07:30 PM

I did. I cant stand that guy ^^

seifer0406 · 01-31-2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEEZ

Neither are the Nets. That said, he has every year helped the Hawks improve and I think he is in based off of that.

First of all, Jason Kidd was voted in by the fans, he has nothing to do with this. Secondly, the Hawks haven't improved since they promised playoffs back when they traded for Shareef Abdul Rahim. They've wiggled up and down in the 6 or 7 years since that debacle, but such minuscule improvement shouldn't be worthy of pushing anyone into the allstar game.

If we only look at stats, then guys like Vince, Gerald Wallace, Richard Jefferson should all make it in over Joe Johnson.

Take Gerald Wallace for example, 21pt/6reb/4ast/2stl/1blk shooting 46%, I would take that over Joe Johnson's 21/4.5/5.3 shooting 41% anyday. Especially when you look at the difference in defense that those 2 players contribute to their teams.

But obviously, this is more than just stats. And that's why picking Joe Johnson over guys like Hedo/Calderon/Ray Allen seems unfair imo. If you look at stats, there are people with better stats, if you look at team performance, there are people with better performance. It's a obvious robbery, but it's not as big as picking David West over Baron Davis in the West.

**BEEZ** · 01-31-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seifer0406

First of all, Jason Kidd was voted in by the fans, he has nothing to do with this. Secondly, the Hawks haven't improved since they promised playoffs back when they traded for Shareef Abdul Rahim. They've wiggled up and down in the 6 or 7 years since that debacle, but such minuscule improvement shouldn't be worthy of pushing anyone into the allstar game.

Im confused. Where in my initial response to you did I say anything about Jason Kidd? That said improvement is improvement and that what has happened. Whether you want to call it miniscule is up to you, the fact remains that the team has gotten better every year since hes been there, especially the last 2 seasons.

Quote:

If we only look at stats, then guys like Vince, Gerald Wallace, Richard Jefferson should all make it in over Joe Johnson.

If you look at only stats, only Gerald Wallace outperforms Joe Johnson. You should go check again. JJ is either even or slightly ahead in some categories over Vince and RJ.

Quote:

Take Gerald Wallace for example, 21pt/6reb/4ast/2stl/1blk shooting 46%, I would take that over Joe Johnson's 21/4.5/5.3 shooting 41% anyday. Especially when you look at the difference in defense that those 2 players contribute to their teams.

Gerald Wallace's defense is slightly overrated and I have spoken about this before. Hes not a good man defender at all while Johnson is a good not great man defender.

Quote:

But obviously, this is more than just stats. And that's why picking Joe Johnson over guys like Hedo/Calderon/Ray Allen seems unfair imo. If you look at stats, there are people with better stats, if you look at team performance, there are people with better performance. It's a obvious robbery, but it's not as big as picking David West over Baron Davis in the West.

Ray Allen is definitley not performing better nor is Calderon, maybe even and the Hedo thing is basically a wash

HB · 02-01-2008, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEEZ

If you look at only stats, only Gerald Wallace outperforms Joe Johnson. You should go check again. JJ is either even or slightly ahead in some categories over Vince and RJ.

But JJ gets more shots than any of those guys. His numbers when approximated are pretty much the same as Vince' with poorer shooting percentages. I can see why Vince should be left off, but RJ has played better than JJ this season.

seifer0406 · 02-01-2008, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEEZ

Im confused. Where in my initial response to you did I say anything about Jason Kidd? That said improvement is improvement and that what has happened. Whether you want to call it miniscule is up to you, the fact remains that the team has gotten better every year since hes been there, especially the last 2 seasons.

When you were talking about the Nets, I thought you were talking about Jason Kidd's selection. If you were talking about RJ, then we were talking about 2 different things.

As I said, the Hawks are on pace to have another 33-35 win season. They won 26 games the year that Joe Johnson joined the team, 30 wins last season. If winning 4 more games, as a bottom feeder no less, can push someone into the allstar game, maybe we should have an allstar weekend every 2 weeks so that fans can stomach all the allstars that the league has to offer. Not to mention any reasonable fan wouldn't attribute all that improvement to Joe Johnson. I mean heck, Memphis won 13 games last year, they already won a whopping 13 games halfway through the season! Should we push Pau Gasol into the allstar game for leading his team from rock bottom to a place slightly higher?

Vince is 21/5/5 shooting 45%, RJ is 24/4/3 shooting 46%, both can be considered better than Joe Johnson's 21/4.4/5.3 shooting 40%. But as I said, this selection clearly isn't about stats because if it was, then Gerald Wallace would've gotten in.

Quote:

Ray Allen is definitley not performing better nor is Calderon, maybe even and the Hedo thing is basically a wash

This would be team performance. Boston/Orlando/Toronto are all much better teams than the Hawks and the players I mentioned are all pivotal figures in those success. As I said, if it's about stats, there are people with better stats, if it's about team, there are people contributing for better teams. That's why Joe Johnson shouldn't make it in under both scenarios, and that's why people feel that him making it in is a mistake.

However, there are mistakes like this every year. As I said, Baron Davis is a bigger snub than whoever spot Joe Johnson took over. As a Hawk fan, you should just be glad that your guy made it in and not disapprove of guys that are clearly more deserving. It's a bit of an insult for fans of those teams.

kiddisanet · 02-01-2008, 06:43 AM

Who the frig picked Joe Johnson to make the AS team? lol.

demens · 02-01-2008, 09:37 AM

i agree that joe johnsons pick this year is nonsense. whether that spot should go to RJ or someone else is questionable. i personally dont think RJ is an all-star, but JJ, thats a joke.

**GrandKenyon6** · 02-01-2008, 10:06 AM

Jefferson isn't even close to deserving a spot on the team. I don't like the JJ selection either, but he's still way more deserving than either RJ or Vince. IMO Ray Allen and Turkoglu should've been in and Hamilton and Johnson out.

HB · 02-01-2008, 10:20 AM

Yeah the Hawks one game difference in standings and JJ's 40% field goal percentages makes him more deserving than RJ and Vince. Are you being serious?

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