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**jarkid** · 02-29-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1pick

You are an idiot.

Yeah Kidd forced Thorn to sign terrible players like Ron Mercer and Rodney Buford. He FORCED thorn to resign Collins. He FORCED Thorn to draft Antoine Wright with the 15th pick and to draft guys like Zoran Planinic and Mile Ilic. He forced him not sign guy like Hasan Adams who brought depth and energy and a spark off the bench. He forced him to not even consider signing Eric Williams who would have added another big body. He forced him to trade Ilic w/o even giving him a chance to really develop. He forced Frank to play a much slower style of ball because thats what he wanted, even though everyone knows he wants to push the ball and is at his best, like Nash/Paul, on the break.

Ratner forced Kidd's hand when they PROMISED him they were gonna build a contender and the rumors of the fire sale weren't true. Then when he gets to the team he sells K-Mart. I know K-Mart hasn't exactly panned out in Denver, but who know how he would have developed with Kidd. They had Kidd, a rising start in RJ, had just signed Mourning and had another rising start in K-Mart. They also had something they've missed since Carter came to the team, toughness. This was a soft team after K-Mart left. He set the tone for the team with his intensity and energy. A Pairing of K-Mart with Kristic would have been great. Add RJ to that and you have a team that can compete for a title very year in the Least. All they would have had to do is add some depth off the bench, Collins could have provided that, they still could have drafted Sean Williams, Josh Boone, and Marcus Williams and add a shooter to the starting lineup.

Flame away.

To add, I'll be the first to admit, he probably could have handled the situation much better. But he's a competitor and when you are wasting your prime of your career on a rebuilding team or a bad team your emotions can get the best of you.

His desire or attitude may not have been right but at least he didn't pull a complete tank job and completely give up(ala Carter in Toronto).

Now Flame Away.

I don't get it, when we have Sean Williams, Josh Boone, and the improving kids, Jason Kidd decided to give up on them, and not to play with them.

All the fans are expecting, Sean and Boone can be personages very soon, and cooperate with Kidd as soon as possible, but he didn't desire to play with them. That's just a shame.

knickstorm · 02-29-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarkid

I don't get it, when we have Sean Williams, Josh Boone, and the improving kids, Jason Kidd decided to give up on them, and not to play with them.

All the fans are expecting, Sean and Boone can be personages very soon, and cooperate with Kidd as soon as possible, but he didn't desire to play with them. That's just a shame.

LOL, ok i dont like kidd either, but let's be realistic.......do you want to play with sean williams and josh boone in the frount court......or dirk nowitzki and josh howard???

AIFAN3 · 02-29-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1pick

You are an idiot.

Yeah Kidd forced Thorn to sign terrible players like Ron Mercer and Rodney Buford. He FORCED thorn to resign Collins. He FORCED Thorn to draft Antoine Wright with the 15th pick and to draft guys like Zoran Planinic and Mile Ilic. He forced him not sign guy like Hasan Adams who brought depth and energy and a spark off the bench. He forced him to not even consider signing Eric Williams who would have added another big body. He forced him to trade Ilic w/o even giving him a chance to really develop. He forced Frank to play a much slower style of ball because thats what he wanted, even though everyone knows he wants to push the ball and is at his best, like Nash/Paul, on the break.

Ratner forced Kidd's hand when they PROMISED him they were gonna build a contender and the rumors of the fire sale weren't true. Then when he gets to the team he sells K-Mart. I know K-Mart hasn't exactly panned out in Denver, but who know how he would have developed with Kidd. They had Kidd, a rising start in RJ, had just signed Mourning and had another rising start in K-Mart. They also had something they've missed since Carter came to the team, toughness. This was a soft team after K-Mart left. He set the tone for the team with his intensity and energy. A Pairing of K-Mart with Kristic would have been great. Add RJ to that and you have a team that can compete for a title very year in the Least. All they would have had to do is add some depth off the bench, Collins could have provided that, they still could have drafted Sean Williams, Josh Boone, and Marcus Williams and add a shooter to the starting lineup.

Flame away.

To add, I'll be the first to admit, he probably could have handled the situation much better. But he's a competitor and when you are wasting your prime of your career on a rebuilding team or a bad team your emotions can get the best of you.

His desire or attitude may not have been right but at least he didn't pull a complete tank job and completely give up(ala Carter in Toronto).

Now Flame Away.

It's funny how some people can be so naive. Kidd's main reason for wanting to go to Dallas (and only Dallas) was that Cuban was willing to pay him the money he wanted.. Forget all that crap about Kidd not wanting to be part of a rebuilding team. Kidd would've stayed put and noone would've heard a word out of him had THorn given him his contract and 20 mill extension. Stop trying to suger coat how and why he left the Nets. He wanted the money, and no other team was willing to shell out the type of money Dallas was willing to get and pay for Kidd..

Should he be looked at as a cancer? No.. Guys like marbury and Z-Bo who only play for themselves should be looked at as cancers on a basketball team.. Kidd should be looked at as a fierce competitor on the court and a selfish ***** and anti leader off of it ... I personally don't hate the guy, and I wouldn't kill myself if Kidd won a ring, but he is who he is and he has done a whole lot for the Nets..

demens · 02-29-2008, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1pick

You are an idiot.

Yeah Kidd forced Thorn to sign terrible players like Ron Mercer and Rodney Buford. He FORCED thorn to resign Collins. He FORCED Thorn to draft Antoine Wright with the 15th pick and to draft guys like Zoran Planinic and Mile Ilic. He forced him not sign guy like Hasan Adams who brought depth and energy and a spark off the bench. He forced him to not even consider signing Eric Williams who would have added another big body. He forced him to trade Ilic w/o even giving him a chance to really develop. He forced Frank to play a much slower style of ball because thats what he wanted, even though everyone knows he wants to push the ball and is at his best, like Nash/Paul, on the break.

Ratner forced Kidd's hand when they PROMISED him they were gonna build a contender and the rumors of the fire sale weren't true. Then when he gets to the team he sells K-Mart. I know K-Mart hasn't exactly panned out in Denver, but who know how he would have developed with Kidd. They had Kidd, a rising start in RJ, had just signed Mourning and had another rising start in K-Mart. They also had something they've missed since Carter came to the team, toughness. This was a soft team after K-Mart left. He set the tone for the team with his intensity and energy. A Pairing of K-Mart with Kristic would have been great. Add RJ to that and you have a team that can compete for a title very year in the Least. All they would have had to do is add some depth off the bench, Collins could have provided that, they still could have drafted Sean Williams, Josh Boone, and Marcus Williams and add a shooter to the starting lineup.

Flame away.

To add, I'll be the first to admit, he probably could have handled the situation much better. But he's a competitor and when you are wasting your prime of your career on a rebuilding team or a bad team your emotions can get the best of you.

His desire or attitude may not have been right but at least he didn't pull a complete tank job and completely give up(ala Carter in Toronto).

Now Flame Away.

wow, there is so much wrong with this rant, its ridiculous. i'm not thorns biggest fan by far, but there is no point to bring in bufford and mercer into this discussion at all, completely irrelevant. and did i misunderstand what you're saying. because it sounded like you're upset that hassan adams, illic, and eric williams are not with the team? what has anyone of those guys done since leaving the nets? matter of fact, what has kmart done since leaving the nets. that was one of the best decisions thorn ever made.

also, were you trying to say that Kidd is in his prime and didn't want to be part of a rebuilding team?

demens · 02-29-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AIFAN3

It's funny how some people can be so naive. Kidd's main reason for wanting to go to Dallas (and only Dallas) was that Cuban was willing to pay him the money he wanted.. Forget all that crap about Kidd not wanting to be part of a rebuilding team. Kidd would've stayed put and noone would've heard a word out of him had THorn given him his contract and 20 mill extension. Stop trying to suger coat how and why he left the Nets. He wanted the money, and no other team was willing to shell out the type of money Dallas was willing to get and pay for Kidd..

Should he be looked at as a cancer? No.. Guys like marbury and Z-Bo who only play for themselves should be looked at as cancers on a basketball team.. Kidd should be looked at as a fierce competitor on the court and a selfish ***** and anti leader off of it ... I personally don't hate the guy, and I wouldn't kill myself if Kidd won a ring, but he is who he is and he has done a whole lot for the Nets..

i didn't hear about any deals in place for dallas to give him an extension. i'm sure thats one of the reason he chose them as one of the teams he wanted to be traded to, but you're making it out to be the one and only undeniable reason. thats not true till he signs that deal, and he hasnt.

AIFAN3 · 02-29-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krakista

If it weren't for VC's dispirited play, Kidd would not have acted like that.

Kidd was the cancer for winning.

It's so much easier to blame everything on Vince.. Lets just give Kidd a free pass for pouting while making 20mill..

eddymac · 02-29-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxaMillion711

of course

its always vince's fault

Its not always Vince's fault, but can you honestly say he gives his all every night?

number1pick · 02-29-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarkid

I blamed Kidd for the last couple post-season except the 2007 playoffs,

he couldn't lead the Nets get past over 04'Pistons, 05&06 Heat, it was always Vince Carter's one man show in 05,06.

His poor shooting is his biggest flaw. In game 7 against 04'Pistons, he can't hit a shot in that game, so we lost.

05,06... He didn't make a big impact for this team to win, we were toasted by Gary Payton, Wade, JWill, Walker... etc.

in His first two years, he contributed much, I agree, and that's the best time for us.

Now, according to his comment, it's time to move on, thank you Jason, and we'll cheer for u when you come to IZOD center next season.

Against the Pistons in 04 he was playing on 1 leg. He had microfracture knee surgery almost directly after the Nets season ended. He can't guard 4 players by himself, another ridiculous point.

number1pick · 02-29-2008, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demens

wow, there is so much wrong with this rant, its ridiculous. i'm not thorns biggest fan by far, but there is no point to bring in bufford and mercer into this discussion at all, completely irrelevant. and did i misunderstand what you're saying. because it sounded like you're upset that hassan adams, illic, and eric williams are not with the team? what has anyone of those guys done since leaving the nets? matter of fact, what has kmart done since leaving the nets. that was one of the best decisions thorn ever made.

also, were you trying to say that Kidd is in his prime and didn't want to be part of a rebuilding team?

Please read the post I was responding too. He said KIDD forced Thorn to make all these terrible deals, etc when that is easily the most retarded thing ever said. All of those deals ARE relevant. Yes Hassan Adams when given a chance was productive off the bench last year, provided depth and energy and got the crowd into it, ALL things that help the team and will especially help at home. When you draft a project like Illic and then trade him and cut the guys you traded him for, it makes no sense. LET HIM DEVELOP. He's in the same mold as Krstic let him play and develop and see what he can do. He got NO minutes. Eric Williams would have been at least another big body to throw off the bench, not the Williams that was with the nets earlier the one out of wake forest that was tearing up summer league. When you are looking for depth at least give some of these guys that want to prove themselves a chance. He can bring energy and rebounding off the bench something thats lacked, but for some reason a 10-day contract wasn't available instead we have guys like Clifford Robinson and Jason Collins, and now wow they trade for Stromile Swift, are you kidding me?

Read my original post for what I said about K-Mart, yeah he hasn't panned out but who knows how he would have done running with Kidd. RJ would have probably developed a little more, he and VC are the same type of player, except RJ gives a lot more effort on the defensive end. We have no idea how things would have turned out had they opted to keep K-Mart.

Yes, I am saying that Kidd didn't want to be on a rebuilding team in his prime. He asked for a trade almost immediately after K-Mart was traded but then quickly back-tracked while rehabbing his knee.

AIFAN3 · 02-29-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demens

i didn't hear about any deals in place for dallas to give him an extension. i'm sure thats one of the reason he chose them as one of the teams he wanted to be traded to, but you're making it out to be the one and only undeniable reason. thats not true till he signs that deal, and he hasnt.

Did I say it was the one and only undeniable reason Kidd wanted out of NJ? I said it was the main one.. I read the article somewhere, and i'll see if I can find the link.. It was well documented Kidd wanted an extension that Thorn didn't want to give him..

number1pick · 02-29-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VC posterized me

There are a lot of responses so I am not going to quote you all but address them more generally.

1. Dude who called me an idiot. I am not even going to read your post. If your first sentence is "You are an idiot", you don't deserve to be a part of a civilized conversation.

2. I admire Jason Kidd as a basketball player. NOT as a person. He is selfish, cruel to people around him, and not a good person. He ruined his first stint with Dallas, assaulted his wife with the Suns, and let us down these past 2 years.

3. While we still had K-Mart he was great for us. It was a fresh start for Kidd, and he was at the top of his game. He did save our franchise. I am denying none of this.

4. He had tremendous control over our team. He was responsibile for forcing Thorn's hand in a lot of deals, ones that hurt our team. Yet, he never took blame for any of them. It was up to Thorn to fix mistakes like Mourning by getting a player like Carter.

I will credit him for what he did, which is why I am not going to ignore what he did at the end of his tenure here. I don't play the "You saved our franchise, feel free to U-Turn the bus and drive it in a ditch" game Kidd does. I am tremendously happy we were able to get a deal that worked out for us, if we had another President we might not have been so lucky. Kidd would've been traded to the Lakers a year ago for absolutely nothing, and we'd be right back where we started.

Yeah Kidd forced Thorn to sign terrible players like Ron Mercer and Rodney Buford. He FORCED thorn to resign Collins. He FORCED Thorn to draft Antoine Wright with the 15th pick and to draft guys like Zoran Planinic and Mile Ilic. He forced him not sign guy like Hasan Adams who brought depth and energy and a spark off the bench. He forced him to not even consider signing Eric Williams who would have added another big body. He forced him to trade Ilic w/o even giving him a chance to really develop. He forced Frank to play a much slower style of ball because thats what he wanted, even though everyone knows he wants to push the ball and is at his best, like Nash/Paul, on the break.

Mourning was signed BEFORE K-Mart was traded. The only reason he came here was to play with Kidd and play on a CONTENDER. Mourning and Kidd and the team and fans were told no changes were gonna happen, they were still gonna compete with this core in tact. Suddenly before the ink is even dry, K-Mart is jettisoned for picks. Next thing we know Kittles is gone too.

Ratner forced Kidd's hand when they PROMISED him they were gonna build a contender and the rumors of the fire sale weren't true. Then when he gets to the team he sells K-Mart. I know K-Mart hasn't exactly panned out in Denver, but who know how he would have developed with Kidd. They had Kidd, a rising start in RJ, had just signed Mourning and had another rising start in K-Mart. They also had something they've missed since Carter came to the team, toughness. This was a soft team after K-Mart left. He set the tone for the team with his intensity and energy. A Pairing of K-Mart with Kristic would have been great. Add RJ to that and you have a team that can compete for a title very year in the Least. All they would have had to do is add some depth off the bench, Collins could have provided that, they still could have drafted Sean Williams, Josh Boone, and Marcus Williams and add a shooter to the starting lineup.

To add, I'll be the first to admit, he probably could have handled the situation much better. But he's a competitor and when you are wasting your prime of your career on a rebuilding team or a bad team your emotions can get the best of you.

His desire or attitude may not have been right but at least he didn't pull a complete tank job and completely give up(ala Carter in Toronto).

demens · 02-29-2008, 09:36 PM

^ i remember that article, and i agree that Kidd wants that money. not getting it here is a huge reason why he wanted out. if he did get it here, he would probably stay, but still be a grumpy little ***** and cause problems. it was a big reason true, and i remember reading something that Dallas was one of the teams willing to pay him, but that has not happened just yet. you think if they bomb out of the play-offs this season the mavs will pay kidd 20 mil in 2 years?

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1pick

Please read the post I was responding too. He said KIDD forced Thorn to make all these terrible deals, etc when that is easily the most retarded thing ever said. All of those deals ARE relevant. Yes Hassan Adams when given a chance was productive off the bench last year, provided depth and energy and got the crowd into it, ALL things that help the team and will especially help at home. When you draft a project like Illic and then trade him and cut the guys you traded him for, it makes no sense. LET HIM DEVELOP. He's in the same mold as Krstic let him play and develop and see what he can do. He got NO minutes. Eric Williams would have been at least another big body to throw off the bench, not the Williams that was with the nets earlier the one out of wake forest that was tearing up summer league. When you are looking for depth at least give some of these guys that want to prove themselves a chance. He can bring energy and rebounding off the bench something thats lacked, but for some reason a 10-day contract wasn't available instead we have guys like Clifford Robinson and Jason Collins, and now wow they trade for Stromile Swift, are you kidding me?

Read my original post for what I said about K-Mart, yeah he hasn't panned out but who knows how he would have done running with Kidd. RJ would have probably developed a little more, he and VC are the same type of player, except RJ gives a lot more effort on the defensive end. We have no idea how things would have turned out had they opted to keep K-Mart.

Yes, I am saying that Kidd didn't want to be on a rebuilding team in his prime. He asked for a trade almost immediately after K-Mart was traded but then quickly back-tracked while rehabbing his knee.

Kidd did force thorn into making those terrible trades. the worst decisions thorn has made here, have been directly or indirectly influenced by Kidd. letting go of hass

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