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VC posterized me · 02-29-2008, 08:20 AM

Ever since the K-Mart era ended we have been stuck with a cancerous player. His name, Jason Kidd.

Now do not get me wrong. I enjoyed having Kidd on the team as much as everyone else, during the K-Mart era.

However, after that, Kidd ruined this team. First of all, he had us bring in all these players that were really bad personalities that just helped to waist space and not perform.

Second, for at least 2 years now he hasn't wanted to be on the team. That is a fact. In my opinion, he lost all want to be on this team after K-Mart left. That is fair, however we added a shot to the team with Carter, but Kidd was already done with us.

People ask me how we can have Kidd/Carter/RJ and not be a better offensive team. The reason is Kidd. Have you seen how Carter has played much better since Kidd left? I expect this to continue, and I expect us to be a better team without Kidd than with.

Lord-SMX · 02-29-2008, 08:39 AM

how long have you been a nets fan? Because if you were a fan before kidd got here you would be happy to make the 8th seed just to play against MJ's bulls!

demens · 02-29-2008, 08:53 AM

I agree to an extent. People have come to overrate Kidd in alot of very important areas of the game, and while he has kept up his near triple double averages as he got older, he's gotten much worst in other areas.

There is no doubt that his desire and overall effort wasn't 100%, but aside from that, he just isn't as good as people make him out to be. I always hated when people would go on and on about how he impacts the game without scoring. part of that was because he was a great to solid defender, at this point in his career he really is a liability on defense.

another point is his crunch time play, something thats getting attention today after dallas vs SA game. people, open your eyes, this guy is not your savior in crunch time. his decision making has gotten so much worst, and his complete lack of scoring ability was always a huge obstacle for him to be a great crunch time player.

you'd have to account that along with Kidd nets also got rid of alot of useless players in Collins, Wright and Allen, so this team isn't just better because Kidd is gone, but because they are gone too, but overall, i really agree that the Nets are a better team today then they were a month ago. doesn't make them a good play-off team just yet, but better then they were.

VC posterized me · 02-29-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord-SMX

how long have you been a nets fan? Because if you were a fan before kidd got here you would be happy to make the 8th seed just to play against MJ's bulls!

I started following the Nets when K-Mart was drafted.

I don't deny that Kidd has done a good thing for this team. But he also brings his own stigma, and really didn't help this team at all the past few years. He forced the hand of Thorn to make bad decisions, didn't want to be on the team for two years, and if everyone continues to play well, arguably negatively affected the chemistry of our team.

Lord-SMX · 02-29-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VC posterized me

I started following the Nets when K-Mart was drafted.

I don't deny that Kidd has done a good thing for this team. But he also brings his own stigma, and really didn't help this team at all the past few years. He forced the hand of Thorn to make bad decisions, didn't want to be on the team for two years, and if everyone continues to play well, arguably negatively affected the chemistry of our team.

1986-87 24 58 .293
1987-88 19 63 .232
1988-89 26 56 .317
1989-90 17 65 .207
1990-91 26 56 .317
1991-92 40 42 .488 Lost First Round Cleveland 3, New Jersey 1
1992-93 43 39 .524 Lost First Round Cleveland 3, New Jersey 2
1993-94 45 37 .549 Lost First Round New York 3, New Jersey 1
1994-95 30 52 .366
1995-96 30 52 .366
1996-97 26 56 .317
1997-98 43 39 .524 Lost First Round Chicago 3, New Jersey 0
1998-99 16 34 .320
1999-00 31 51 .378
2000-01 26 56 .317

i don't need to say anything else! You can say what you want about kidd's effort at the end of his nets career but i don't think you understand how bad it got at times being a nets fan before kidd. You had it good VC poster but i've been a fan since 95' and actually breaking 41 wins in a season was a GREAT accomplishment. So this "cancer" was the greatest thing to happen for my team...

**jarkid** · 02-29-2008, 10:10 AM

I blamed Kidd for the last couple post-season except the 2007 playoffs,

he couldn't lead the Nets get past over 04'Pistons, 05&06 Heat, it was always Vince Carter's one man show in 05,06.

His poor shooting is his biggest flaw. In game 7 against 04'Pistons, he can't hit a shot in that game, so we lost.

05,06... He didn't make a big impact for this team to win, we were toasted by Gary Payton, Wade, JWill, Walker... etc.

in His first two years, he contributed much, I agree, and that's the best time for us.

Now, according to his comment, it's time to move on, thank you Jason, and we'll cheer for u when you come to IZOD center next season.

VC posterized me · 02-29-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord-SMX

1986-87 24 58 .293
1987-88 19 63 .232
1988-89 26 56 .317
1989-90 17 65 .207
1990-91 26 56 .317
1991-92 40 42 .488 Lost First Round Cleveland 3, New Jersey 1
1992-93 43 39 .524 Lost First Round Cleveland 3, New Jersey 2
1993-94 45 37 .549 Lost First Round New York 3, New Jersey 1
1994-95 30 52 .366
1995-96 30 52 .366
1996-97 26 56 .317
1997-98 43 39 .524 Lost First Round Chicago 3, New Jersey 0
1998-99 16 34 .320
1999-00 31 51 .378
2000-01 26 56 .317

i don't need to say anything else! You can say what you want about kidd's effort at the end of his nets career but i don't think you understand how bad it got at times being a nets fan before kidd. You had it good VC poster but i've been a fan since 95' and actually breaking 41 wins in a season was a GREAT accomplishment. So this "cancer" was the greatest thing to happen for my team...

And him leaving will be the greatest thing to happen for the future of this team.

My point isn't that he didn't help us, or should have never been here. My point is since K-Mart has been gone he hasn't helped us, and I don't want people to ignore that. As far as I'm concerned he left like a coward, not wanting to play his all on a team that still has talent, and I will remember his great times as a Net as well as that time.

**jarkid** · 02-29-2008, 10:17 AM

I don't think Jason could be called "cancer", but the last season as the Nets.

Turnover prone, off-court scandles, whinning to be out even we are establishing the winning streak. I expected to see the lineup work well.

Kidd, VC, RJ, Boone, and Krstic, but after we beat Mavs, his agent forced Thorn to dispose the trade. That really really pissed me off.

VC posterized me · 02-29-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarkid

I don't think Jason could be called "cancer", but the last season as the Nets.

Turnover prone, off-court scandles, whinning to be out even we are establishing the winning streak. I expected to see the lineup work well.

Kidd, VC, RJ, Boone, and Krstic, but after we beat Mavs, his agent forced Thorn to dispose the trade. That really really pissed me off.

Well that is my point.

Obviously, he wasn't cancer when he came here. However, when K-Mart left he started to grow into one, and definately by the time he left I think his negatives were highly out-weighing his positives.

I don't think it would have worked. The minute the trade deadline passed and Kidd wasn't traded he'd flip a shi*.

HB · 02-29-2008, 12:05 PM

As time goes on, more will be revealed. But I do know a couple of things, the Nets organization stood behind him even with all his off-court issues. For Thorn to come out and basically say Kidd gave up on the team, especially with the sitting out stunt he pulled earlier in the season was pretty sad. Kidd has done a lot for the franchise no doubt, but it was in the best interest of the team that they both moved their seperate ways.

He actually owes Thorn one, for trading him to a team that can contend. With the stunts he pulled this season, they shoulda shipped him off to a lotto team.

Finally the team is playing like a team. They might not be contenders, but in the past few games you can actually see the difference it makes when the point guard actually scores efficiently. They are averaging over 108ppg since Kidd's departure as opposed to 93 when he was here. Marcus who everyone thought was a bust, has shown he can actually contribute. Harris is only 25, and looks like an extremely solid pick. Even if the Nets don't make the playoffs this year, the future is bright.

**bball2223** · 02-29-2008, 12:17 PM

So Jason Kidd (who was the sole reason you guys have won 2 Eastern conference Titles this decade) was the person who you were glad to get rid of? Yeah maybe his actions lately haven't been the best but without him your franchise would have never gotten out of the cellar.

number1pick · 02-29-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VC posterized me

Ever since the K-Mart era ended we have been stuck with a cancerous player. His name, Jason Kidd.

Now do not get me wrong. I enjoyed having Kidd on the team as much as everyone else, during the K-Mart era.

However, after that, Kidd ruined this team. First of all, he had us bring in all these players that were really bad personalities that just helped to waist space and not perform.

Second, for at least 2 years now he hasn't wanted to be on the team. That is a fact. In my opinion, he lost all want to be on this team after K-Mart left. That is fair, however we added a shot to the team with Carter, but Kidd was already done with us.

People ask me how we can have Kidd/Carter/RJ and not be a better offensive team. The reason is Kidd. Have you seen how Carter has played much better since Kidd left? I expect this to continue, and I expect us to be a better team without Kidd than with.

You are an idiot.

Yeah Kidd forced Thorn to sign terrible players like Ron Mercer and Rodney Buford. He FORCED thorn to resign Collins. He FORCED Thorn to draft Antoine Wright with the 15th pick and to draft guys like Zoran Planinic and Mile Ilic. He forced him not sign guy like Hasan Adams who brought depth and energy and a spark off the bench. He forced him to not even consider signing Eric Williams who would have added another big body. He forced him to trade Ilic w/o even giving him a chance to really develop. He forced Frank to play a much slower style of ball because thats what he wanted, even though everyone knows he wants to push the ball and is at his best, like Nash/Paul, on the break.

Ratner forced Kidd's hand when they PROMISED him they were gonna build a contender and the rumors of the fire sale weren't true. Then when he gets to the team he sells K-Mart. I know K-Mart hasn't exactly panned out in Denver, but who know how he would have developed with Kidd. They had Kidd, a rising start in RJ, had just signed Mourning and had another rising start in K-Mart. They also had something they've missed since Carter came to the team, toughness. This was a soft team after K-Mart left. He set the tone for the team with his intensity and energy. A Pairing of K-Mart with Kristic would have been great. Add RJ to that and you have a team that can compete for a title very year in the Least. All they would have had to do is add some depth off the bench, Collins could have provided that, they still could have drafted Sean Williams, Josh Boone, and Marcus Williams and add a shooter to the starting lineup.

Flame away.

To add, I'll be the first to admit, he probably could have handled the situation much better. But he's a competitor and when you are wasting your prime of your career on a rebuilding team or a bad team your emotions can get the best of you.

His desire or attitude may not have been right but at least he didn't pull a complete tank job and completely give up(ala Carter in Toronto).

Now Flame Away.

RJ24VC15 · 02-29-2008, 01:53 PM

RJ's improvement made Kidd not nearly as useful. VC and RJ can both get their own shot at anytime, and Carter is a great playmaker to get the bigs involved. Kidd is now a poor man to man defender, and a spot up shooter not an attacker like in the past.

This team is better with Williams at the point, and much better with Harris at the point.

As good as Carter and Jefferson are, they can be defended with enough guys, but Harris will blow by every single guard in this league and open up the floor so much as well as shut down teams PG's which is so key to helping the team defense.

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