Chinatownballer

What i meant by All Star Calliber player was Marbury, Crawford, Q, Frye, and Curry. Marbury and Frye we agree on. Q used to average like 17 a game, showing that he has serious offensive talents that he obviously hasn't shown this year. Crawford is a brilliant creator off the dribble who can score (last year 17.7ppg) and Curry has tremendous potential as well. The talent on our team is there but its not the right type of talent to fit into Larry Brown's gritty, defensive-minded, unselfish style of bball. If these guys were coached by someone who would let them play their game we would see a lot more from what this year has seemed like complete garbage. I think we could be a really good team with the players that we have but obviously not if they have to change their games to match LB's style. If we're gonna give the team to LB we'd might as well show no lloyalty to our players and simply ship off the majority of our players for hustling, athletic, defense-oriented players. And as for Billups, sure he got better under Larry Brown but have you seen the difference between last years Billups and this years Billups? Its been an utter explosion after Flip Saunders took over. LB gave him tools that he didn't have and Flip gave him the opportunity to use his old skills up to his potential as well as the one's Larry gave him. Check the stats if you want, Billups did not play to his potential under LB. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chaunc...ups/index.html

alphadog

Son, you need to get into public relations work. You could make a dog turd sound like an ice cream sundae. Q didn't used to average 17...he did it once. Seventeen doesn't translate into serious offensive talent. JC is a brilliant creator? He has the physical ability to do it. I've also seen the SPORADIC penetration and creation, but the key word is, sporadic. Curry remains a raw talent(as Truth said above, and I will agree). Frye is nowhere near an allstar, yet, and whether he gets there or not remains to be seen. So we're back to Stephon and the Pips. I definately want you to write my next resume', though......

What you have to understand about this year's Billups is that Flip is an offensive coach. The team is scoring more as a rule. We'll see how that works in the playoffs when defense rules the court.

Truth, Curry has not had the benefit of a really good coach before, and he has been injured and not worked into shape. I like him, he has too many tools. If he got the same calls as Shaq, he'd be scoring 25+ now. Just a great low post game and amazing agility. He'll learn. Woods? I agree...lets see what the kid can do with some minutes. I do, however, like Lee at the 3. He has everything but the J, and he has a helluva lot better post game than any of the other SFs on the team. They can be very big with Lee, Curry, and Frye, without losing any athleticism. Just think, if you wanted to go really nuts, you could plug in Ariza and Nate to go with them. Probably have a ton of TOs but I'd pay to watch that unit go up and down with pressure D and Fastbreak O.....Lots of fun for your nickle.

Chinatownballer

OK, OK i am prone to exaggeration but why couldn't the players that were scoring so much last year scoring so much less this year. True, LarryB has his own vision of how a team wins but i, personally would love to see the Knicks play to their scoring potential. About Billups, thats exactly what i was pointing out: his huge improvement offensively, scoring, dishing, and getting fewer assists than last year. That's the type of improvement i would want to see in our players. Yes, i am very very nice to our players in terms of making them look good but i do see the truth behind their games. I mean come on, who wouldn't want the Knicks to be an exciting offensive-minded team?

alphadog

1) Most of the guys you are talking about have gotten their points doing 1 on 1 stuff...not in the flow of a team oriented offense. Their are few players that can survive the extra defensive attention that type of play will bring in the playoffs. Thats one of the reason the Spurs are so tuff. Stop one guy and another option opens up...team play.


2) Billups is NOT an improved offensive player. He gets more looks in this type of offense that Flip runs. Is the team better off for it? I'm not sure they are since scoring was not a problem for the Pistons and defense wins. The Wolves could ALWAYS score when they were healthy, but it came primarily from one guy and then they couldn't stop anybody on a regular basis.

3) It is exciting to watch an offense oriented team but defense really DOES win titles. I would rather the Knicks play to their defensive potential. If they had been playing the type of defense they played in the first part of the season, they'd be close to .500 now. (That plus hit some damn FTs).

Chinatownballer

OK, basically i agree with you, but i would still want the Knicks to play better offensively. I wish somehow the offense and the defense wouldn't be an either or kindof thing. Our offense at this point is basically our point guards feeding our big men in the low post and waiting for them to do something. Even if everyone else was cutting we obviously shouldn't be relying on Jerome James and Eddy Curry to make the big passes. First of all we need to cut to the basket and second of all we should have our point guards draw defenses and make dishes to swishes. Obviously LB has more experience at this than i do but for me, considering the passing ability of our big men, we shouldn't be relying on the low post for offense. But the lack of movement is something that really bothers me. I'm assuming that he's been telling them to cut and that their not listening because otherwise i will have lost faith in the guy. And about Billups, you still haven't convinced me. In this new freedom Flip has given him, not only has he been scoring more but turning the ball over less and dishing out more assists. This is not simply Billups getting more touches, he's actually playing better and making his team better.

alphadog

We DO need to improve the offense but look at it like this: Almost every team has to establish a low post game first. It makes the other stuff work much easier. With Curry hurt, we don't have a true low post guy and as you know, we are lacking at consistent perimeter shooting. Bottom line in my opinion is this: Curry and Frye will have to get better in the post before we make very much improvement on offense. It would help if Marbury would attack the basket 10-15 times a game instead of settling outside. He MUST become more of a vocal leader and lead by example. The young guys all need to play a lot of minutes...really as much as they can, unless the ball is being turned over too much (hear me, Nate?). I feel this team can be close to a .500 team without sacrificing LB's system. Remember...its going to be a long strange trip.

Chinatownballer

Yep, much offense needs to be improved. I just got the Knicks complete history DVD and watched game 7 of the 94 eastern conf finals against Larry Brown's Pacers. It was pretty weird seeing a young AD and LB and seeing a post presence like Ewing's compared to what we have now. All i know is that someone is going to have to draw double teams and someone is going to have to cut to the basket (like LB's Pacers). Kind of off topic but something i've been wondering is why Nate isn't in the game more in tight games. He has shown that when it counts he can really play well. I'm not just talking about the buzzerbeater in Philly but also how well he defends, hustles, rebounds (if only Steph chased lose balls like Nate did). Also, if you look at the Philly game i remember he made a huge momentum shifting three before his game winner. He's pretty clutch and i think he deserves more burn considering, sadly, at 5'9 he's basically our best perimeter defender. About the turnovers i think their worth it considering all the other things he does while he's on the floor. One weird thing about Nate is that he's capable of sometime's making really nice passes and really playing the point but, unfortunately, it happens as consistently as Crawford scores 20. Maybe i'm a little bit too faithful in Nate but he seems to have the tools to be more than what other people on this board have affectionately reffered to as an "off the bench sparkplug."

chrisr87

Actually, according to analysts offense WAS a problem for the Pistons in the Finals. And that is said to be the cause of their losses.
And to China, the reason Q isn't doing what he did last year is because in Phoenix he was probably the 4th and 5th option on the court. Actually, come to think of it, he wasn't exactly an option. He'd spot of and knock down threes. They didn't regularly run plays for him. It's just pick and rolls with Amare, and if they converged on him or Nash the Q would go to the open spot and hit the three. Under Larry Brown's offense this isn't possible. They are not a running team. If you watch the Knicks, they are a stand-still team without a flow or a rhythm.
Also, though I've criticized Larry Brown in recent weeks, the Knicks are just a bad ballclub. Aside from Antonio Davis, no one on that team that gets significant minutes has a high basketball IQ or even remotely high. And on the defensive end, they don't play good team defense. Marbury and Nate, at times play tenacious individual defense, but they are inconsistent. Nate always brings the hustle and effort but he just doesn't know how to play defense. He tends to foul the guy or pressure too hard and let the guy pass him after getting picked off.
Overall, there's enough blame to go around, the players, the coach, but I think most of the blame should be placed on Isiah. He worked so hard on trying to make the Knicks an athletic team that he forgot there were other important characteristics and skills needed on the floor. Last year, while Ariza's stock was still high, they should've traded him along with another player for a decent SF. Ariza's lack of basketball IQ, virtually no ball handling ability, bad lateral movement, and slow leaping ability hurts the team. Brown plays him because really he's the only SF on the team. Then there's Curry, great physical specimen. Ends there, though. On the offensive end, I can tolerate him. But watching him play defense is like watching Shaq shoot free throws. For someone as long and athletic as Curry, you'd think he would play at least a little defense. But that's the thing with the Knicks, besides Davis, no one wants to play defense. Everyone else just wants to score. Hell, even retardedly terrible players like Jerome James starts calling for the ball and taking fadeaway jumpers. If the Knicks are to succeed now or even in the future, they must stick to their young crop of talent.
Lineup:
PG Crawford (better pg than marbury. doesn't mean he's good, but he's better)
SG Marbury (better at the 2. he's the best offensive player on the squad and the pg responsibilities keep him from using his strengths plus he's just a bad pg. I wouldn't even call him that)
SF Lee
PF Davis
C Frye (Curry injured)

Players that should rotate in:
Robinson
Richardson
Taylor (he has shown effort in recent weeks. he's starting to rebound and defend.)
Butler (I don't know why he only gets garbage time. he has very polished offensive skills for such a young player who hasn't played much.)
Hardaway

alphadog

First to China......Nate is way to TO prone a times, and its hard to have a TO machine in there unless you have the lead. Trying to come back...which we always are...is not possible when you have to protect every possession.

Next up, Chris.....Curry has more than physical skills. He is a decent shotblocker when healthy and is nearly unstoppable down low when he is not double-teamed. He must yet learn to pass quicly oout of the double teams. Whether or not he learns to do this will define him as a player. Star or mediocre? As far as his man defense goes, he is not good, but he is still better than Ewing who got beat by everybody, even when he was young. He WAS, however, a better shotblocker than Curry. Ariza has faults but yoou are simply wrong about his jumping. It happens to be one of his best attributes...quick and high off the floor. I'm just not sure where you got that one. Its hard to tell about his IQ because of his utter lack of experience and playing for 3 coaches in a year and a half. Agree with you on most of the young guys (higher on Curry and Arizaand lower on JC and Marbury) but I just don't like Taylor....despite his improvement in certain areas, he is a black hole when the ball gets to him.

chrisr87

Ewing was an incredible low post defender in his prime. I'm not sure what you mean by him getting beat by people because rarely in that time was a big man too agile. He could just sit in the paint and block shots. Ewing was a great defender. And I already spoke about how dominant Curry was OFFENSIVELY. But he needs huge improvements on his defense. He is really not a good shotblocker. And about Ariza, I've watched him play. He doesn't have strong legs. He can jump decently high, but his length exaggerates his jump and he really doesn't get off the floor that quickly, at least as quickly as you would think. And he has terrible balance. When he jumps in the air, he has a difficult time regaining composure when he lands. The only thing useful about him at this point is his length. Though he isn't very quick, his long arms frustrates players when he's defending them. At least that's the way I've seen it in Ariza.
About Taylor, I didn't like him much either. I still don't, but I'm comparing him to the other Knicks bench players. I'm talking bout Malik Rose and Jerome James. They should not be active.
Honestly, other than Frye and Lee and maybe Butler and Davis, I don't like anyone on the Knicks right now. Nobody else hustles. They play like they don't care. Quentin Richardson is borderline with me because he has shown signs of dependability. And Marbury used to be good till he started playing passively. Jamal is just instant offense. I don't see him playing 38 minutes a game on any team ever and being productive. I think it's a good move for him to come off the bench if we had a point guard to take pressure off Marbury. I think the Knicks should take a page from San Antonio's playbook. They begin the game with Parker going insane and driving into the paint every play and either getting fouled, getting a layup, or dishing for open shots. When penetration gets closed off, they start going to Duncan in the post. They should do that with Curry and Marbury.

alphadog

But the last thing I will say on this thread is about Ewing. I loved the big guy band was delirious when we got the first pick but he was never a good man on man defender in the pros. It was hard to tell in college because he was the last line of defense and rarely lined up against a quality big man. No matter what you or any other person thinks, he never lived up to his defensive reputation in the pros...by a long shot. Most NBA folks expected him to be the next Russell or even better. On the plus side, he turned out way better on offense than anyone thought.

Rockets111

with the probable lineup at the beginning of the season being
marbury
crawford
richardson
frye
curry
it is surprising how they are not at or above 500, they have a wicked talented team its just that lb doesnt want it like that and hes gay, so if they had a different coach than they would probably win more games.......

THIS IS THE LAST TIME I'M GOING TO EDIT ONE OF YOUR POSTS ON THIS BOARD. REFRAIN FROM POSTING INAPPROPRIATE COMMENTS UNLESS YOU WANT A NICE VACATION.

CHECK YOUR PM'S

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urwhatueati8god

Let's take a look at the centers. The most productive is Butler. The money is allocated to Curry and James. Power forwards; the best is Frye. The money is allocated to Rose and Taylor. Small forwards; the best is Ariza. The money is allocated to Richardson. Shooting gaurds; the best is Crawford. The money is allocated to Houston and Hardaway, neither of whom are even on the team. Finally, you have point guard which is the only place where there is actually any justice. Mis-allocation of funds can not be placed on coaching. It's like having NYC as a nice, strong marketplace and putting all your funds into advertising in Montana. Isiah is perhaps the most incompetent at what he does in this business and the only thing that's saving him any face is the fact that he's buddies with Larry Brown. He absolutely deserves to be fired.

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