If you could make 1 move what would it be(within reason of course) ? - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

Da Grinch · 09-08-2006, 03:50 PM

personally i would trade steve francis for eddie jones and a 1st rd. pick.

my reasoning is the knicks have enough scoring but not nearly enough defense plus they already have 3 guards who can score in similar ways to francis in nate marbury and crawford , they need a guy who can spot up and play defense and be a team guy ,QRich has shown he can do it , but its not his forte like it is eddie jones' even at his advanced age.

the grizz have lost pau gasol for up to 3 months into the season and have damon stoudamire coming off an ACL tear 30 or so guards who are under 6 ft tend to drop off anyway add in coming off leg sugery and the drop in production is extremely likely especially that 1st year, steve francis would be ideal for them to keep afloat while pau heals and beyond as they need more scoring.

if the grizz needed an extra bone thrown in i would add mo taylor for brian cardnail, whose outside shooting would be nice with marbury's drive and kick style of ball, but no matter what i would want a 1 st round pick IT's real talent is drafting at the GM spot and getting picks is important.

TwinkieFoot · 09-08-2006, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Grinch

personally i would trade steve francis for eddie jones and a 1st rd. pick.

my reasoning is the knicks have enough scoring but not nearly enough defense plus they already have 3 guards who can score in similar ways to francis in nate marbury and crawford , they need a guy who can spot up and play defense and be a team guy ,QRich has shown he can do it , but its not his forte like it is eddie jones' even at his advanced age.

the grizz have lost pau gasol for up to 3 months into the season and have damon stoudamire coming off an ACL tear 30 or so guards who are under 6 ft tend to drop off anyway add in coming off leg sugery and the drop in production is extremely likely especially that 1st year, steve francis would be ideal for them to keep afloat while pau heals and beyond as they need more scoring.

if the grizz needed an extra bone thrown in i would add mo taylor for brian cardnail, whose outside shooting would be nice with marbury's drive and kick style of ball, but no matter what i would want a 1 st round pick IT's real talent is drafting at the GM spot and getting picks is important.

I guess you were the guy that suggested to trade for Jones a few weeks back. I mentioned in one of my more recent posts that I thought it would be a good idea for the obvious reasons you stated earlier but I still selected other. Right now, I'd try to stand pat unless it managed to condense our roster and improve the talent within our 8-9 man rotation. I still believe that both Steph and Steve could coexist on the court together and the results could be amazing if so. I want to especially see what happens with those two considering the fact that maybe one of our problems on offense is the lack of an identifiable and consistent 2nd scorer next to Marbury.

EwingStarksOakley94 · 09-08-2006, 06:36 PM

I said get rid of Francis. I don't know how or if that's possible, but that would be my main objective. I agree with Twinkie Foot though, there is no reason he and Marbury couldn't coexist. I just have no faith that that will happen. I think it's not only too many of the same kind of player, but I'd like to see Crawford start and with Francis here it presents a big problem. I don't dislike Francis and I think he could be an all-star again. I just don't see where his place is on this team. And I'd rather get rid of him and save us all some serious frustration.

Real · 09-08-2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Grinch

personally i would trade steve francis for eddie jones and a 1st rd. pick.

my reasoning is the knicks have enough scoring but not nearly enough defense plus they already have 3 guards who can score in similar ways to francis in nate marbury and crawford , they need a guy who can spot up and play defense and be a team guy ,QRich has shown he can do it , but its not his forte like it is eddie jones' even at his advanced age.

the grizz have lost pau gasol for up to 3 months into the season and have damon stoudamire coming off an ACL tear 30 or so guards who are under 6 ft tend to drop off anyway add in coming off leg sugery and the drop in production is extremely likely especially that 1st year, steve francis would be ideal for them to keep afloat while pau heals and beyond as they need more scoring.

if the grizz needed an extra bone thrown in i would add mo taylor for brian cardnail, whose outside shooting would be nice with marbury's drive and kick style of ball, but no matter what i would want a 1 st round pick IT's real talent is drafting at the GM spot and getting picks is important.

If the Knicks get that done deal, it's a good move.

Problem is that Memphis won't do it. Now that they lost Pau they're in the Greg Oden sweepstakes, and even if they don't get him, they'll get someone else solid, like a Kevin Durant or a Joakim Noah.

This draft will potentally be one of the best in years, and if Memphis is not going to do well this year, they're not trading the pick, and they certainly don't need Francis.

Da Grinch · 09-08-2006, 07:15 PM

guys i have to admit i have a curiousity to see marbs and francis together in the same backcourt. i think it would be exciting if they could co exist . a couple off times they played off of each other really well last season, both guys are used to teams putting their best defender on them and having defenses designed to stop them.

1 of these guys will be taking apart the lesser defender the other team is playing on them on a regular basis , making them more effective my guess is francis will benefit from this more than marbury, because alot of pressure tends to make francis error prone.

if i had to bet i'd go with it working but see jones working out as even more likely.

**USSKittyHawk** · 09-08-2006, 07:16 PM

If the opportunity was to present themselves I say get rid of Isiah while we can. I still think he is a waste of oxygen but I like the Jefferies signing. Realistically getting rid of him won't happen unless we have another dreadful season, so my selection would be Francis. GM's around the league usually play hard ball with us, so getting a first rounder will be pretty tough to do unless you're taking back a huge significant of salaries which Dolan stated he did not want to do.

Da Grinch · 09-08-2006, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real

If the Knicks get that done deal, it's a good move.

Problem is that Memphis won't do it. Now that they lost Pau they're in the Greg Oden sweepstakes, and even if they don't get him, they'll get someone else solid, like a Kevin Durant or a Joakim Noah.

This draft will potentally be one of the best in years, and if Memphis is not going to do well this year, they're not trading the pick, and they certainly don't need Francis.

i think the grizz won 49 games last year ...i dont see losing gasol for half a season making them a 15-23 win team which they will need to really be in the Oden sweepstakes(worst team only gets a 1 in 4 chance at the top spot anyway) if he even decides to come out which is far from a certainty he has given every indication he intends to stay in college for some time, he always maintained he was going to college even before the 19 and over rule came into effect I'm not sure of how bad they will be most likely in the low 30's, bad enough not to be close to the playoffs , but not bad enough to get all the great talents in the draft.

veteran teams generally dont tank especially the ones who are playing for contracts like eddie jones , or are near the luxury tax ...i am pretty sure they are at the threshold, thats alot of money to pay for your players to not even try .Neither fratello or jerry west have a history of having a team tank on them, so i'm very skeptical of that happening.

Real · 09-08-2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Grinch

i think the grizz won 49 games last year ...i dont see losing gasol for half a season making them a 15-23 win team which they will need to really be in the Oden sweepstakes(worst team only gets a 1 in 4 chance at the top spot anyway) if he even decides to come out which is far from a certainty he has given every indication he intends to stay in college for some time, he always maintained he was going to college even before the 19 and over rule came into effect I'm not sure of how bad they will be most likely in the low 30's, bad enough not to be close to the playoffs , but not bad enough to get all the great talents in the draft.

veteran teams generally dont tank especially the ones who are playing for contracts like eddie jones , or are near the luxury tax ...i am pretty sure they are at the threshold, thats alot of money to pay for your players to not even try .Neither fratello or jerry west have a history of having a team tank on them, so i'm very skeptical of that happening.

They don't need to have a top-5 pick to get a really good player. They could be at the no. 12-14 and potentally still get someone really good.

I think that keeping the pick in this draft makes more sense than trading for Steve Francis.

Zuca · 09-08-2006, 08:48 PM

Big move, it's a fusion from my Jerome James trade idea and MoT one...

Sactown trade Corliss Williamson to Seattle, Ronnie Price to Washington and Vitaly Potapenko to Nets;

Nets trade Jeff McInnis and Cash to NY (so NY can buyout him);

NY trade Q Rich to Memphis, Jerome James to GS, Mo Taylor to Sacramento and Ime Udoka to Boston;

Boston trade Brian Grant to NY, Brian Scalabrine to GS and Dwayne Jones to Sacramento;

Memphis trade Stromile Swift to Washington, Brian Cardinal to Boston and Dahntay Jones to NY;

Washington trade Etan Thomas to Memphis;

GS trade Adonal Foyle to NY;

Truknicksfan · 09-08-2006, 09:11 PM

Quote:

I said get rid of Francis. I don't know how or if that's possible, but that would be my main objective. I agree with Twinkie Foot though, there is no reason he and Marbury couldn't coexist. I just have no faith that that will happen. I think it's not only too many of the same kind of player, but I'd like to see Crawford start and with Francis here it presents a big problem. I don't dislike Francis and I think he could be an all-star again. I just don't see where his place is on this team. And I'd rather get rid of him and save us all some serious frustration.

I also say get rid of Steve Francis. Its really nothing personal, its just marbs is the teachers pet and isnt going anywhere and I want JC and Nate to get lots of playing time.

About Marbs and Francis in the same backcourt, thats a tough sell, granted im curious but I do not know if it would work. I mean if they play the same type of defense they played last year, it would be hard to have them on the floor at the same time.

EwingStarksOakley94 · 09-08-2006, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truknicksfan

I also say get rid of Steve Francis. Its really nothing personal, its just marbs is the teachers pet and isnt going anywhere and I want JC and Nate to get lots of playing time.

About Marbs and Francis in the same backcourt, thats a tough sell, granted im curious but I do not know if it would work. I mean if they play the same type of defense they played last year, it would be hard to have them on the floor at the same time.

as professionals and highly skilled players they should be able to coexist. of course they're both off their respective rockers, so that makes the possible less likely

**USSKittyHawk** · 09-09-2006, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truknicksfan

I also say get rid of Steve Francis. Its really nothing personal, its just marbs is the teachers pet and isnt going anywhere and I want JC and Nate to get lots of playing time.

About Marbs and Francis in the same backcourt, thats a tough sell, granted im curious but I do not know if it would work. I mean if they play the same type of defense they played last year, it would be hard to have them on the floor at the same time.

Be careful what you wish for, Nate is a walking turnover and I don't think he can run the team at the PG position. IMO I don't think he is that good, he is just the teams energizer bunny. I guess everyone gets a clean slate due to the LB debacle so we sha'll see.

Kiyaman · 09-11-2006, 01:22 PM

Sorry! wrong move to all those who think trading Francis for Eddie Jones is best for the Knicks situation, its not.
Temple Rookie Mardy Collins need to observe and practice with Marbury, Francis, Crawford, and Nate for one entire season to learn and grasp his PURE-PG Skillz as a Defender & Offensive contributor for his NBA Career with the Knicks or without them.

So far the Knicks Best Combo-Guards is Marbury & Francis not Crawford.
The 6.6 Rookie Mardy Collins have the chance of becoming a great Combo-Guard
with a Hall of Famer coaching (Isiah) him with Star Players of Marbury & Francis
to learn from.

Francis is an asset to the Knicks right now (For Nate and Collins).

ToddMacCulloch11 · 09-11-2006, 01:34 PM

moving Francis for anything will be a step in the right direction.

**cpawfan** · 09-11-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiyaman

Sorry! wrong move to all those who think trading Francis for Eddie Jones is best for the Knicks situation, its not.
Temple Rookie Mardy Collins need to observe and practice with Marbury, Francis, Crawford, and Nate for one entire season to learn and grasp his PURE-PG Skillz as a Defender & Offensive contributor for his NBA Career with the Knicks or without them.

So far the Knicks Best Combo-Guards is Marbury & Francis not Crawford.
The 6.6 Rookie Mardy Collins have the chance of becoming a great Combo-Guard
with a Hall of Famer coaching (Isiah) him with Star Players of Marbury & Francis
to learn from.

Francis is an asset to the Knicks right now (For Nate and Collins).

How in the hell is Collins going to learn defense from those 4? Three of them are allergic to defense.

View Poll Results: If you could make a move for the knicks what would you do?
trade marbury	3	13.04%
trade francis	12	52.17%
trade balkman (when you can)	1	4.35%
trade mardy collins(when you can)	1	4.35%
trade Q. richardson	8	34.78%
trade Jalen rose	4	17.39%
trade malik Rose	4	17.39%
trade mo Taylor	4	17.39%
trade david lee	2	8.70%
trade channing frye	2	8.70%
trade eddy Curry	4	17.39%
trade jamal crawford	2	8.70%
trade jerome james	7	30.43%
trade nate robinson	1	4.35%
trade jared jeffries (when you can)	3	13.04%
sign either or both of ime udoka or Qyntel Woods	4	17.39%
sign whomever cut someone to make space	2	8.70%
Fire Isiah, hire some1 else	9	39.13%
Other	2	8.70%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

09-08-2006, 03:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
Da Grinch X-Mas Taker Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nyc Posts: 8,425 Rep Power: 2256496	If you could make 1 move what would it be(within reason of course) ? personally i would trade steve francis for eddie jones and a 1st rd. pick. my reasoning is the knicks have enough scoring but not nearly enough defense plus they already have 3 guards who can score in similar ways to francis in nate marbury and crawford , they need a guy who can spot up and play defense and be a team guy ,QRich has shown he can do it , but its not his forte like it is eddie jones' even at his advanced age. the grizz have lost pau gasol for up to 3 months into the season and have damon stoudamire coming off an ACL tear 30 or so guards who are under 6 ft tend to drop off anyway add in coming off leg sugery and the drop in production is extremely likely especially that 1st year, steve francis would be ideal for them to keep afloat while pau heals and beyond as they need more scoring. if the grizz needed an extra bone thrown in i would add mo taylor for brian cardnail, whose outside shooting would be nice with marbury's drive and kick style of ball, but no matter what i would want a 1 st round pick IT's real talent is drafting at the GM spot and getting picks is important. __________________ Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Last edited by Da Grinch; 09-08-2006 at 04:19 PM.

09-08-2006, 06:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
EwingStarksOakley94 Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: NY Posts: 644 Rep Power: 624531	Re: If you could make 1 move what would it be(within reason of course) ? I said get rid of Francis. I don't know how or if that's possible, but that would be my main objective. I agree with Twinkie Foot though, there is no reason he and Marbury couldn't coexist. I just have no faith that that will happen. I think it's not only too many of the same kind of player, but I'd like to see Crawford start and with Francis here it presents a big problem. I don't dislike Francis and I think he could be an all-star again. I just don't see where his place is on this team. And I'd rather get rid of him and save us all some serious frustration. __________________ looking for some fresh new music? www.myspace.com/alife

09-08-2006, 07:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
Da Grinch X-Mas Taker Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nyc Posts: 8,425 Rep Power: 2256496	Re: If you could make 1 move what would it be(within reason of course) ? guys i have to admit i have a curiousity to see marbs and francis together in the same backcourt. i think it would be exciting if they could co exist . a couple off times they played off of each other really well last season, both guys are used to teams putting their best defender on them and having defenses designed to stop them. 1 of these guys will be taking apart the lesser defender the other team is playing on them on a regular basis , making them more effective my guess is francis will benefit from this more than marbury, because alot of pressure tends to make francis error prone. if i had to bet i'd go with it working but see jones working out as even more likely. __________________ Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.

09-08-2006, 07:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
USSKittyHawk Sexy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 13,497 Rep Power: 10342918	Re: If you could make 1 move what would it be(within reason of course) ? If the opportunity was to present themselves I say get rid of Isiah while we can. I still think he is a waste of oxygen but I like the Jefferies signing. Realistically getting rid of him won't happen unless we have another dreadful season, so my selection would be Francis. GM's around the league usually play hard ball with us, so getting a first rounder will be pretty tough to do unless you're taking back a huge significant of salaries which Dolan stated he did not want to do. __________________ *"Behind every successful woman there is an astonished man." - Four Star General Ann E. Dunwoody* "Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege." "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

09-08-2006, 08:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
Zuca Star Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: São Bernardo, SP, Brasil Age: 28 Posts: 3,252 Rep Power: 3466303	Re: If you could make 1 move what would it be(within reason of course) ? Big move, it's a fusion from my Jerome James trade idea and MoT one... Sactown trade Corliss Williamson to Seattle, Ronnie Price to Washington and Vitaly Potapenko to Nets; Nets trade Jeff McInnis and Cash to NY (so NY can buyout him); NY trade Q Rich to Memphis, Jerome James to GS, Mo Taylor to Sacramento and Ime Udoka to Boston; Boston trade Brian Grant to NY, Brian Scalabrine to GS and Dwayne Jones to Sacramento; Memphis trade Stromile Swift to Washington, Brian Cardinal to Boston and Dahntay Jones to NY; Washington trade Etan Thomas to Memphis; GS trade Adonal Foyle to NY; __________________ Thrilled to reach the 3200th post!

09-11-2006, 01:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
Kiyaman Veteran Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: N.Y. N.Y. Age: 54 Posts: 1,338 Rep Power: 1662206	Re: If you could make 1 move what would it be(within reason of course) ? Sorry! wrong move to all those who think trading Francis for Eddie Jones is best for the Knicks situation, its not. Temple Rookie Mardy Collins need to observe and practice with Marbury, Francis, Crawford, and Nate for one entire season to learn and grasp his PURE-PG Skillz as a Defender & Offensive contributor for his NBA Career with the Knicks or without them. So far the Knicks Best Combo-Guards is Marbury & Francis not Crawford. The 6.6 Rookie Mardy Collins have the chance of becoming a great Combo-Guard with a Hall of Famer coaching (Isiah) him with Star Players of Marbury & Francis to learn from. Francis is an asset to the Knicks right now (For Nate and Collins).

09-11-2006, 01:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
ToddMacCulloch11 Legend Join Date: May 2003 Location: NJ Age: 30 Posts: 22,938 Rep Power: 21474869	Re: If you could make 1 move what would it be(within reason of course) ? moving Francis for anything will be a step in the right direction. __________________ hi.

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