TwinkieFoot

We've all been listening to the Ron Artest situation recently. Supposedly, he is on the block and can be had for a very low price. There have been some who feel that Artest is the kind of player that the Knicks need. I personally disagree because as a veteran that has had headcase problems, I believe his talents would be better served on a contender that might be able to help manage his emotional stability a bit better. While the Timberwolves certainly are not a contender at this time and moment, I do believe that he can help them reach that status and avoid having the franchise move Garnett for at least 2 years longer.

Here's what I would propose for the 3 way deal:

Knicks Trade (to the Kings):
Jared Jefferies...F
Channing Frye...F/C

Knicks Recieve (from the Wolves):
7th overall draft pick
41st pick
Troy Hudson
Cash Considerations

Wolves Trade (to the Knicks):
7th pick
41st pick
Troy Hudson
Cash Considerations

Wolves Recieve (from the Kings):
Ron Artest...SF


Kings Trade (to the Wolves):
Ron Artest

Kings Recieve (from the Knicks):
Channing Frye...F/C
Jared Jefferies...F


The Wolves do it because they add one of the best players in the league that plays both ends of the floor. He's a headcase but a guy like Kevin Garnett and other strong veteran influences on the team might be able to provide Artest with the kind of stability that he missed throughout most of his career. That same cast seemed to do an excellent job keeping Latarell Sprewell under raps so hopefully they have a similar influence on Artest. If they manage to do so, they would be right back to the championship contender status with a few additional pieces. They also manage to satisfy Kevin Garnett who might be fed up enough with the current situation to demand a trade. They essentially win out on two fronts.


The Kings do the trade because if rumors are correct, they want to move Artest at any cost. In return they recieve a pretty solid package featuring Channing Frye who can play the 4 spot (which is particularly weak for them) at a high level and Jared Jefferies who is a good role player and plays within that role. Both offer solid contribution even though it is certainly not up to par with what Artest can do for you.


The Knicks do it because Isiah is a wiz with draft picks and may have a chance to draft a solid player that the Knicks need. They take back Troy Hudson but his contract would not be so difficult to buy-out but may very well be attractive to other playoff teams looking for an extra zing (see the Heat who are in need of a veteran backup PG and scoring 6th man).

My next order of business after getting this draft pick would be to look to move further up into the draft for the Suns pick.

Knicks Trade:
7th pick
23rd pick

Knicks Recieve:
4th pick
29th pick

...The deal keeps the Suns in position to draft a good young player and move up with it's later pick. I think they also save a few thousand dollars from doing the deal as well. With that 4th pick, I'd use it to select Al Horford. With the 41st pick, I'd look to select Demetris Nichols if he's still around. I'm not sure who I'd select with the 29th pick.


Knicks Roster Outlook:

Starters
Stephon Marbury...PG
Quentin Richardson...SG
Ronaldo Balkman...SF
Al Horford...PF
Eddy Curry...C

Bench
Nate Robinson...G
Jamal Crawford...G
Mardy Collins...G/F
David Lee...F
Randolph Morris...C

Steve Francis...G
Troy Hudson...G (should be bought out)
Malik Rose...F/C
Jerome James...C
Demetris Nichols...G/F
29th pick (whoever we select)

I'd look into getting Gerald Wallace so that we can go for 2-1 or 3-1 trades in order to bring us under the league max of 15 players. Maybe Malik Rose (contract), Ronaldo Balkman and Nate Robinson for Gerald Wallace in a sign and trade might work. I also been a bigger fan of Adonal Foyle than Jerome James. The Warriors might be interested in James since he's a cost cutting move immediately but not long term. Anyway, what do you guys think and what moves with you make with the aforementioned roster?

reives21

1st- I don't like Gerald Wallace. He had two good seasons on a bad Charlotte Team. He is OVERRATED in my opinion.

2nd- Minnesota will not trade away their number 7 pick for Ron Artest. I see how you set it up w/ Minnesota trading T.Hudson in the process but I think they will require more then just Ron Artest to give up the #7 pick, especially w/ the kings owner announcing they what they can to get rid of Artest.

3rd- The way the draft looks, if the Knicks had the #4 or if he was at the #7 spot I would look at drafting Corey Brewer. I think he is going to be another T.Prince but w/ a better scoring ability.

4- Kings would get a steal in C.Frye and J.Jeffries for Artest. Yeah they will be taking on more salary but they will get rid of Artest and still get young talent in return. To much to give Sacramento for a guy they just want to dump. Maybe just giving Jefferies & 2nd rounder, Minnesota gets R. Artest and C. Frye and Knicks get 7th pick and t.hudson would I make it a bit fairer.

__________________
"To be great is to be misunderstood."
-Ralph W. Emerson

TwinkieFoot

1.) How could Gerald Wallace be overrated when his game or worth, is determined on the defensive end of the floor? Last time I checked, his teammates were not getting those steals for him, blocking those shots for him, or improving his overall defensive/rebounding ability. The fact that he has also improved his offensive game emmensely, his jump shot in particular, is also something that can not be attributed to his team. Bad teams are bad teams because you can basically keep them to a lesser amount of points than you consistently. Considering that the Bobcats don't have any distinguished scorers on the team, I find it to be impressive that Wallace puts up 18ppg on 45% shooting because it would be so easy to double down on him and not have anyone else on the squad hurt you offensively.

2.) You just spent an entire thread hyping up Artest, talking about how valuable he'd be too a roster. Now all of a sudden, one of the best players in the league is not worth a no.7 pick? Despite all his headaches, I doubt the Maloofs would look forward to moving him for the sake of moving him. They'd have to be put in a situation to make it at least beneficial to them or else they'd just buy out his contract. On the Wolves end of things, they do not have any other options of significantly improving the team besides bringing in a guy like Artest. That no.7 pick is not going to keep Garnett happy because it will not make them the title contender that Artest is. Considering the fact they would add Ron and ditch a long term contract in Hudson, I think they'd easily make this trade despite losing the no.7 pick. If it really means that much too them, we could give them the no.29 pick since we'd still have a 2nd round pick.

3.) Cory Brewer is not expected to go until 7th and thats one of the guy's I feel is a bit overhyped. I will say that I am no expert at scouting college players, so I could be wrong. To be honest, I think that a guy like Gerald Wallace can do all the things Brewer can do but more.

4.) Somehow, I do not believe giving up an all-star that is one of the best in the league when he's actually playing for a big man whose sole worth is the potential tag to his name and a SF that won't be anything more than a role playing defender. You got to give to get in this league even though certain circumstances allow you a little wiggle room to give you a slight advantage. This is one of those situations but by no means are the Maloofs going to move Artest just to make another team better, especially a team they are looking to compete with for a playoff spot.

reives21

1. Gerald Wallace in an OVER RATED in my OPINION. Wallace in playing for a contract. And now someone will overpay G.Wallace and suffer because they thought they were getting a quality player who can turn their team around.

2.I do like Artest. I love what he can bring to the court when he wants to play but the Maloof brothers made the mistake of basically saying they will trade Artest for basically nothing. So if the entire league (Minnesota is part of the league last time I checked) will not be giving any reasonable offer for Artest. I really think it will comedown to a buyout of Artest's contract. I think the Knicks would give up Frye and Jefferies for the number 7 pick but I doubt Minnesota will give up the number 7 for Artest. I think Minnesota could get a quality guy w/out the headaches for the 7th pick and Hudson. So even though I think Artest is still a quality player the Kings shot themselves in the foot by making their statements.

3.I've looked at the different draft simulators. They are pretty much the same at the top 3 picks but thereafter it gets a little different. NBADRAFT.net has Hibbert going number 8. I doubt he will fall past the top 5. Corey Brewer is a player I've followed the last 2 years and his skills are really good, better IMO then Jeff Green and Al Horford. He is a good overall player who will be difficult to guard and a player who will be difficult to get around and score on. Brewer can play SG,SF, and fill in for PF for a run and gun team like Phoenix but we will see in the coming years.

4. As for this comment, look above and you see how I feel about Ron Artest.

__________________
"To be great is to be misunderstood."
-Ralph W. Emerson

alphaorange

He is a poor outside shooter who fades bigtime in the clutch. Most of his high % is due to the fact that he gets a lot of inside scoring. Decent, but undistinguished rebounder for a 3. One season of 2 blocks per game and back down to 1 this year. Nowhere can I find a mention of him being a good man to man defensive player. People seem to remember his spectacular plays (and there are many) and assume they are the norm.

It is mind-boggling that anyone would consider trading our own David Lee while he is still developing. The man was 2nd in fg% and 6th in rebounding, while scoring 11ppg(before getting injured) in his first real opportunity. His numbers a very Oakleyesque. If he develops defensively and perimeter shooting-wise, he will exceed Charles' game by far.Why would anyone assume he is anywhere near his ceiling? The only question is where will he play? PF or SF? I think it depends on his jumper. I'm also shocked that so many are down on Frye. Wasn't anybody watching last year? I saw him attempt to give Alonzo a facial 3 times in the same game. He was turned back but who hasn't been? I don't know what happened this year but Frye was in the running for rookie of the year for a good part of last season. He outplayed the #1 pick all year. He is 6'11 and 250 pounds with the best stroke of any big I can think of. KG has more range but Frye is more consistent. The young guys are going to take time. There are no LJs or 'melos in the group, they will have to develop as a unit. They should only be traded for someone CLEARLY better than what these guys will be in a couple of years (unless they become a distraction or problem).

More than anything else, this team needs to play defense......Curry needs to get better at rebounding and defense...and we really need more perimeter shooting to open the floor for the low post guys. JC needs to go to help acquire a sweet-shooting 2 or 3 who will D it up. D. Nichols, anyone? And lastly, IT needs to figure out how to blend players and please don't spend all of your staff's attention on Curry. There are a bunch of others that could use instruction, too.

jericho

I actually really like the Knicks/Wolves/Kings proposal. I think it could help all 3 teams.

The biggest question mark is whether wise owls around the NBA think Artest is just over the edge mentally. If Minny brass were to come to the conclusion that he would benefit from a change of address, and Garnett can help keep his head screwed on tight, then they should pull the trigger on this one.

A subdued but sane Artest should still be good for 16 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg, and world-class defense. Don't tell me that's not worth the 7th pick in this draft, when pretty much everyone below the first two picks is a project or comes with question marks. If they really want to take another serious run at contending status, they should jump at a chance to get Artest.

Foye looks like the real deal and should be better next season. The 'Wolves lack a true pass-first playmaker to start at PG, but guys like Garnett, Artest, and Ricky Davis all pass well at their positions.

I'm not saying this move alone makes Minnesota a contender, but it would look like a serious move in the right direction and perhaps a reasonable roll of the dice. Unless, of course, the team is ready to swallow hard and trade Garnett.

And it's a decent shake-up for an overcrowded Knicks team with quirky chemistry. Frye will do better elsewhere, anyway. Time to start David Lee, and let him gobble up the boards that Curry creates the space for. See what Balkman can do...Jeffries was overrated and overpaid anyhow.

__________________
BadBaronRudigor's All-Time League Draft:

C - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/Nate Thurmond
PF - Charles Barkley/Bob McAdoo
SF - Julius Erving/Larry Nance/Billy Cunningham
SG - Alvin Robertson/Ray Allen/Pete Maravich
PG - Jason Kidd/Isiah Thomas

TwinkieFoot

1.) That statement is cmpletely off base. If you followed Gerald Wallace throughout his career, you'd know that he's been doing what he's been doing for 2 seasons now and not just this year. Just the year before this one he averaged 15.2ppg, 7.5rpg, 2.5spg and 2.1bpg on 53.8% shooting. His numbers in rebounds, steals, blocks and shooting percentage actually all decreased slightly since last year so I doubt he's putting on a performance for a contract. The kind of guys that usually do that, have only one distinguished season and that happens to be right when they are in a contract year. Gerald Wallace has not shown that and is only getting better.

2.) Everyone and there mother knew that Artest HAD to be moved from the Pacers but at the same time, the Pacers didn't just settle for any package. In fact, they rejected a few offers, one of which included Corey Maggette who is a pretty good player.

3.) Brewer looks pretty raw too me offensively but is a good defender. I don't know if you use a pick that high for just those credentials. I'll wait and see what his first year in the pros are like before I pass judgement though because I have not seen alot of college footage.


4.)What point are you trying too make?

TwinkieFoot

Crazy thing, Wallace not being a clutch scorer is completely irrelevant. Why? Because we don't need a clutch scorer, we need a solid defensive player and that is what he is. Forget the so called critiques of Wallace of a player. They seldom encompass all what a player truely is. I rely on something much more valueable to judge players and it's called the games. You should catch one of two with Wallace in it and a few others around the NBA because then you'll realize his 7.1rpg at the SF position, places him among the best at that spot which is far better than "decent." Watch him play. He usually merks us every single year so I thought you would have figured out just how good this guy really is.

Another crazy thing, I never suggested trading David Lee so I don't know where that rant came from. I also recall Frye's play last year. That is why I feel he'd be able to bring in a nice player for us. He's likely never going to play better than that caliber with us because of how our offense is structured. He's a pretty good player but we need fits and glue guys on our team.

alphaorange

It should be clear which points are directed at you. And although you did not mention trading Lee in this post, you have been trying to replace him with other PFs all season. I have watched Gerald Wallace...and more than you, I bet since I have league pass and you obviously do not in college. His % is inflated due to so many inside shots and while he is a good shot blocker off the ball, nothing suggests he is a "stopper". So let's recap: Poor to mediocre jumper shooter, decent to good rebounder (which we already have at the sf), good off the ball blocker (which we need but he is not THAT good to make his acquisition a real difference-maker). We gain a little something and lose a little something and what we lose is something we have in short supply....shooting.

TwinkieFoot

And while we're on the topic, let's recap and remind you that not everything you believe is the begin-all or end-all of a conversation. You may have had league pass but I have managed to catch a couple games myself since I have digital cable at home which also allows me, as part of the package, to view games on my laptop. I am not suggesting that Wallace is a deft perimeter player but I am saying that his jump shot (shooting mechanic for one thing) has improved alot and has resulted in him becoming a more sound shooter. If he continues to refine that aspect of his game and gets the opportunity to play next to a big man like Eddy Curry, that jumper might be something he should look to turn to more often as an opportunistic scorer.

This is what it all amounts to offensively, in my opinion for Gerald Wallace. He's an opportunistic scorer which is exactly what we need on our team. What I mean by that, is that Wallace gets his points by taking advantage of the situation whether it be space he's provided, broken plays, or put backs. He has managed to perfect this art very well and manages to put points on the board, something guys like Jared Jefferies have not mastered. This year, I noticed the Bobcats put the ball in his hands a little bit more often but I don't think he's that kind of player per say. Like you said, a majority of his points come within the paint and I personally have no qualms with that since those are higher percentage shots, so if he can get them, take them. He's game however is on the defensive end of the floor, but his greater role within the Bobcats offensive has made him a little more hesitant to be as aggressive as he once was. Now, he has to stay on the floor longer meaning that he has to be more conscious of the fouls he may commit. On the Knicks, I don't think that that would be an issue since we don't need him scoring the ball and could see that 2bpg and 3spg average rise back up. He's an excellent fit.

TwinkieFoot

P.S., who in this post suggested trading David Lee, since your post obviously was not directed at me? No one did, what was the purpose of mentioning that? I also have not been trying to "replace" Lee with other PF's because the fact of the matter is that in all of my proposals except for the ones including KG, Lee is a backup. Throughout the season, from what I recall, Lee has been our 6th man so how would keeping him as a 6th man be replacing him? And while you have league pass, I find it hard to believe you'd tune in for the ever-exciting Bobcats.

alphaorange

1) you have been a huge proponent of replacing Lee. You expect him to simply sit on the bench? I can connect the dots. If you think Lee stays to sit on the bench, you're nuts. If you're going to lose him, you need to trade him. He is far too good to be a bench player. Its so easy a caveman can understand it.

2) Wallace is not a good outside shooter. He is a slasher. We do not need a slasher. We need outside shooting. We have plenty of "opportunistic" scorers. Translation: guys that don't shoot well or make their own shot.

TwinkieFoot