knickstorm

i take the unproven lottery pick who has a chance to be a stud over the role player any day of the week.

Schilly

Ainge and Thomas working out a deal is like that scene in Zoolander when Ben Stiller and and Owen Wilson are trying to get the information out of the computer.

ChosenFEW

^lol

i was watching that the other day

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ehmunro

Hah!!! Quoted.

__________________
"The Spurs are the Jason Voorhees of the NBA. No matter how many times you think you've finally killed them, turn your back on them and they're right back on their feet, machete in one hand and chainsaw in the other."

"Tim Duncan is the biggest crybaby in the NBA. If the Spurs were gay, he'd be Liberace." MCD

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

"I do not know what the Queensberry rules are, sir, but the Wilde rules are to shoot on sight!" Oscar Wilde to the Marquis of Queensbury after being threatened by the former pugilist.

Those who are in the know praise Dead Women Tell No Tales:

"The account of Kobe participating in orgies and the description of the surroundings is accurate. I attended few of those parties myself..." -- Jondell R. Montgomery, Long Beach, 2006

Men don't notice the price when in the presence of naked women. They needed a research study to tell them that.

TwinkieFoot

After just 2 seasons of play where he's seen unlimited time but unlimited potential, I would not designate Robinson anything as of yet. In either case, this draft would not nearly be as special had Oden and Durant not been in it so I do not believe that the pick carries that much weight especially hearing rumors Ainge is not interested in it.

TwinkieFoot

Green averaged 22mpg last year which was actually overinflated from Paul Pierce going down earlier in the year. During that span, Green posted some very impressive games but did not manage to have a consistent role on a team that consistently saw people move in and out of the rotation. He's a bit inconsistent and does not possess the ball handling ability as you say but at the same time, no one should be expecting a complete player at 21. As far as I'm concerned, he earned his role as much as Ellis has, who began seeing big minutes after Baron Davis went down with an injury.

I do not believe Perkins is as special a talent as people make him out to be and I do not know much of Powe's game but I've seen West, Allen and Gomes extensively and they appear to be solid young players. Gomes was averaging a damn near double double his first year when he got minutes. West has proven to be a very solid all around player that knows how to play this game and Allen has proven to be a very explosive player offensively and have an ability to play the lanes when he's healthy and not got issues with the law.

ehmunro

Early in the year, when the Celtics were relatively healthy, and Green wasn't getting a lot of time, he looked good. Once he was force fed minutes, and had to score because Pierce was out, he didn't look nearly so good. He was averaging over 30 m/g in March and April, and shooting just above .430 aFG% with no defense that anyone could see. He just wasn't the superstar that people are making him out to be

Allen's had two reconstructive knee surgeries, no one knows how much explosiveness he has left. And he relies on that explosiveness to an unholy degree because he still can't shoot to save his life and his one offensive move consists of putting his head down and bull-rushing the net. As for West he still has no right hand, is a terrible defender, 6'2", weak, soft, and injury prone, and he makes a lot of boneheaded plays for someone that "just knows how to play the game". We Celtics fans screamed in frustration at West as he repeatedly ignored open shooters in an attempt to play catch with Wally Szczerbiak & Brian Scalabrine. Pierce had to start stealing the ball from West just to get Jefferson shots. Gomes is another player without a position. A 6'7" PF without sufficient athleticism to get the job done, and unable to defend the 3. They have far too many players like that.

__________________
"The Spurs are the Jason Voorhees of the NBA. No matter how many times you think you've finally killed them, turn your back on them and they're right back on their feet, machete in one hand and chainsaw in the other."

"Tim Duncan is the biggest crybaby in the NBA. If the Spurs were gay, he'd be Liberace." MCD

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

"I do not know what the Queensberry rules are, sir, but the Wilde rules are to shoot on sight!" Oscar Wilde to the Marquis of Queensbury after being threatened by the former pugilist.

Those who are in the know praise Dead Women Tell No Tales:

"The account of Kobe participating in orgies and the description of the surroundings is accurate. I attended few of those parties myself..." -- Jondell R. Montgomery, Long Beach, 2006

Men don't notice the price when in the presence of naked women. They needed a research study to tell them that.

TwinkieFoot

So your telling me that you'd expect a 21 year old Gerald Green to essentially carry the Celtics with players you claim are all overrated? I'm kind of confused by that. Personally, I didn't expect him to be a consistent big time scorer but I thought he'd show flashes of it and he most certainly did. You can't have the world in just a day.

As for the rest of the Celtic players, they are young and starting to just finding themselves. Allen has had both of those surgeries but he is young and may have a chance to have a healthy career despite them (see Amare Stoudemire). When he was healthy (and recieved the few minutes left from having Pierce on the team), he looked very effective breaking teams down and finishing with the contact. I was also impressed with his developing ability to play the lanes and even defend.

Delonte West has been one of the guys whose game I have most admired. I find it interesting that you call him "soft" yet plays so hard-nosed that Doc Rivers went on record discussing how he did not want to play him extended amount of minutes because of his aggressively reckless play that. He is injury prone but not because he takes it easy on the court but because he's a hell bent player and gives all the effort possible on the floor. I also feel a bit befuddled by the fact that you call him a bad defender yet at 6-4 (and not 6-2 like you mentioned) when the guy effectively blankets his opponents and also proven to be an excellent shot blocker at his position. His decision making as a PG is not one of the best but then again, it is not one of the worst considering that he is not a tradional PG. I also don't know about how many "mistakes" West can make when he only turns the ball over twice during the game, which is very impressive given the fact that he plays 32mpg.

As for Gomes, he's an undersized 4. Does any of that matter if the guy manages to still do what he does in spite of that? Ben Wallace is undersized for the 4 position yet height never seemed to faze him. Elton Brand is 6-8, the same size as Gomes and not much more athletic, yet his height has not seemed to hinder him. The fact of the matter is that Gomes may not be tall enough to be considered an average 4 but he's smart enough to get around that fact. He may not be stronger than most 4's but he uses his speed in those instances to get his points; vice versa if his opponent is faster than him. He also is a solid rebounder, so obviously the guy has some game.

ehmunro

You referred to him as a "superstar". I expect that a "superstar" could shoot an aFG% a little higher than .430. What it boils down to is that Green can score efficiently when he's nothing more than a kickout shooter. But as he moved up the foodchain he couldn't make the grade. I made the observation after his performance in the 2005 VSL that I thought he was on the Ricky Davis career path (in that it would take 5-6 years for him to pan out), and he did nothing last year to change my mind.

Amare Stoudemire is a far more skilled basketball player than Tony Allen. TA relies on that explosiveness to get by his man because his handle is mediocre at best. Without it there won't be any bull rushes to the net, and no weakside swoops for putbacks. That's about 80% of his offensive game.

Delonte West is 6'2.5" in shoes, not 6'4". He can't muscle anyone, and gets overpowered on a regular basis. As far as I know, that's the definition of soft. He doesn't blanket anyone at either guard position. And that's largely playing backups, he looks worse against the starters. Of course, he is the coach's pet, so the (Not So) Good Doctor gives West free reign to gamble for rebounds & steals. Of course the result of that is that West's man is wide open on the other end of the floor. If he were a smarter player he'd know when to pick his spots. He isn't. And there are lots of mistakes that don't show up on a scoresheet. When you play catch with Brian Scalabrine, while Al Jefferson has his man sealed off in the post and is calling for the ball, you've just made a mistake. Even though you didn't turn the ball over. West is suffering from AWS*. The owners have been promoting him as the face of the Boston Celtics, and he thinks he's a star. And, unfortunately, his coach enables him (it's O'Brien/Walker all over again, only without the winning). He'd be OK coming off the bench for someone like San Antonio (where the vet players would put him in his place). In Boston he's a liability.

ummmm, Elton Brand is a whole lot more athletic than Ryan Gomes. Ben Wallace, in his 30s, is still more athletic than Ryan will ever be. And if you haven't noticed, Big Ben's game's been falling off as his athleticism declines. Gomes can't start next to Jefferson as they're both undersized, and opponents were able to generate too many close shots and too many rebounds with them paired on the floor. He was a defensive disaster at the small forward position. If the Celtics had one guy without an NBA position in their rotation, they could survive, but they had five or six like that in their lineup. The result was a team that went 4-31 without Pierce on the floor. They really aren't all that talented. Aside from Jefferson, they're basically roleplayer level guys. Sure, everyone needs roleplayers. But if that's your whole team, you're in a lot of trouble without a great coach. And Boston ain't got one of them.


*Antoine Walker Syndrome

__________________
"The Spurs are the Jason Voorhees of the NBA. No matter how many times you think you've finally killed them, turn your back on them and they're right back on their feet, machete in one hand and chainsaw in the other."

"Tim Duncan is the biggest crybaby in the NBA. If the Spurs were gay, he'd be Liberace." MCD

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

"I do not know what the Queensberry rules are, sir, but the Wilde rules are to shoot on sight!" Oscar Wilde to the Marquis of Queensbury after being threatened by the former pugilist.

Those who are in the know praise Dead Women Tell No Tales:

"The account of Kobe participating in orgies and the description of the surroundings is accurate. I attended few of those parties myself..." -- Jondell R. Montgomery, Long Beach, 2006

Men don't notice the price when in the presence of naked women. They needed a research study to tell them that.

TwinkieFoot

You should reread my original posts. No where did I mention Gerald Green being a superstar. In fact, I actually mentioned that he has not proven to be anything more than a guy capable of good games which is a far-cry from the description of a superstar; your confusing me with another poster. Still, his 43% shooting is not any indication of why he can't be a superstar because Kobe during his young career has down that on many occassions over a season (6) and that was with Shaq. The list continues with guys who fall short of the superstar label in my opinion with Chauncey Billups whose never shot above 43% in a season, Tracy McGrady whose shot 43% or worse in 5 seasons and many other notable stars in the league. As for Green being nothing more than a kickout shooter, I disagree, but he can certainly become a star on our team by doing so. We have one of the best low post scorers in the league and a guy whose still one of the best penetraters in the league who Gerald would have a field day playing with.

Outside of his amazing athleticism there has been nothing skilled about Amare's game. Although he has improved his ball handling ability, Amare's skills are mediocre at best which explains why he does nothing well besides score the ball. It takes more than just amazing athleticism to cut it in the back court which explains why guys like Gerald Green have not broken out yet and how guys like Fred Jones still have not contributed much to a NBA team. Allen is a solid young player that has shown the ability to know how to get minutes and make the most out of them.

You can believe whatever you want to believe about Delonte's height but NBA.com which is as official as you can get, lists him at 6-4. When he plays, he usually looks much bigger than PG's who on average of 6-2 so I believe that the 6-4 listing is accurate. You can complain about Delonte all you want but the fact of the matter is that he gets minutes when the Celtics have 4 other PG's they can turn to and develop. They also have a pretty solid pick this year and have the option of selecting a PG but likely won't. Obviously, he's good enough to earn the respect where they feel comfortable with the position as is and continue to give him minutes considering the number of options they have. As for him being soft because he doesn't muscle anyone, Marcus Camby never muscled anyone in his life on the basketball floor and he's Defensive Player of the Year. I doubt you'd call Marcus Camby soft.

Why does a player have to start in order for him to be considered good? Why can't Gomes just come off the bench and be a 6th man? The Knicks have one of only a few big man that averaged a double double last year (one of the best rebounders in the league) and he came off the bench. Former all-star Manu Ginobli has come off the bench for the 3-time champion Spurs who currently are in the Finals. Although Gomes does not possess the potential of Al Jefferson and although he is not supremely athletic, he plays the game effective enough for him to be relevent. Carlos Boozer for instance is not much taller than Gomes and not that much more athletic yet he has managed to be one of the biggest playoff stars this year. It all depends on knowing how to use what you've got and Gomes has shown the ability to do so muscling the guys he can muscle or taking the slower guys off the dribble. There's a reason why he's still on the team and it's not because the Celtics like to waste money.

ehmunro