seifer0406

I thought your claim was that his views on players are tilted because of his hatred towards certain players. I honestly don't see where you proved that, but as long as you think so, that's good enough for our purpose.


See above.

And frankly, some of those posts you listed aren't even that ridiculous. Take the Fyre/Rose for Jones/Thomas swap picks for example, it turned out that the Knicks did find better value in Fyre by getting Randolph and unloading Francis at the same time. I don't see where the ridicule is located in this one, perhaps you can point it out more clearly.

Also the players on the Knicks roster often under-perform because of the various problems associated with the team. If Josh Smith and Childress were on the Knicks the past few seasons, god knows what kind of players they would become. The same thing can be said about Channing Fyre and Quentin Richardson. In Richardson's case, he was so effective in Phoenix and LA, and his career plummeted after he came to NY. Injuries had a lot to do with it, but the distractions and team atmosphere in NY aren't necessarily helping either. I am not saying that Josh Smith and Josh Childress won't thrive in NY, but if I'm betting on a new team that those 2 would succeed in, NY would probably be my last or 2nd to last choice.

ehmunro

Well, that was my claim, made after his statements of evaluative expertise. Here are his exact words...

It's been my experience here that he doesn't get anything close to "most of them right". I've read chuckler after chuckler from him. He usually resorts to his "I've been coaching this game for years and know more than you so just shut up!" argument. As for my claim about his subjective likes colouring his perceptions, you can see the repeated player comps between players that have nothing in common except his like or dislike. I pulled up a bunch of them in ten minutes of work. (Mostly because I'd remembered the original mentions as they struck me so funny at the time). When I see repeated comps of dissimilar players there's a problem, when the one similarity is someone's like/dislike of the players, it's certainly fair to note that, and assume that this is the cause. You can tell me that there's some other reason for this bizarre coincidence, but I prefer the simpler theory.

The only reason Frye is playing in Portland, at all, is Oden's injury. Portland was unloading Randolph, and New York could have had him for other players. David Lee would have done just as well. Hell, Renaldo Balkman would have been enough to get the deal done. The Blazers just wanted rid of Z-Bo. So, um, yeah, if the choice is between Z-Bo and a mid-lottery pick, or Z-Bo, then the first wins every single time. Neither is this defense germane to AO's claim.

I'm pretty sure that the "atmosphere of NY" has nothing to do with the way Q-Rich hobbles around the court. Richardson was certainly kind of effective in his contract year (and not really as much as you're implying), he was so effective in Phoenix that they unloaded him at the first possible opportunity. And none of this is germane to either my observations about AO's evaluative tendencies nor his defense (which amounts to "I don't care if I said it, I didn't mean what I wrote that way"). Who gives a **** how players may or may not turn in New York? It wasn't part of his game comps. And it shouldn't be. So my point stands.

__________________
"The Spurs are the Jason Voorhees of the NBA. No matter how many times you think you've finally killed them, turn your back on them and they're right back on their feet, machete in one hand and chainsaw in the other."

"Tim Duncan is the biggest crybaby in the NBA. If the Spurs were gay, he'd be Liberace." MCD

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

"I do not know what the Queensberry rules are, sir, but the Wilde rules are to shoot on sight!" Oscar Wilde to the Marquis of Queensbury after being threatened by the former pugilist.

Those who are in the know praise Dead Women Tell No Tales:

"The account of Kobe participating in orgies and the description of the surroundings is accurate. I attended few of those parties myself..." -- Jondell R. Montgomery, Long Beach, 2006

seifer0406

That is only your speculation, it really doesn't strengthen your argument in any way. If I'm not mistaken, David Lee at the time was worth about the same if not more than Fyre as Lee averaged a double double. If that's the case, I don't understand how trading Lee for Randolph is a better deal than trading Fyre for Randolph. Show me some proof about Balkman for Randolph, if not, just keep that to yourself.

Actually no, think about what you're comparing here. You're saying you rather trade David Lee for Z-Bo, and do the Fyre/pick switch thing? The choice is more like David Lee/Fyre, for Z-Bo and higher pick vs. Fyre for Z-bo, keep David Lee and lower pick. Tough choice here, I probably go with Z-Bo an David Lee rather than a mid lottery pick like Noah or Wright, or one of those swingman in that area. Also they are 2 separate trades. If Fyre is gone and Portland wasn't interested in Lee, you might just end up with a higher lottery pick and Lee and no Randolph.

About Fyre getting playtime in Portland. I think it's obvious that they planned to have him in the rotation from the start regardless of Oden injury. If you look at their roster, behind Oden and Aldrige, they only have Prizbilla as the backup 5, and no legitimate PF/C behind him. LaFrentz is an injury waiting to happen, Prizbilla isn't iron man himself. I don't see how it would be impossible for Fyre to get playtime there, even with Oden healthy. The Blazers aren't happy with Fyre's body right now as the Knicks made him bulk up too much while he was in NY, an example to how NY mistreats their talents. Blazers coaching staff thinks that Fyre would be more effective if he's slimmer, thus he is in the process of transforming his body and playing style.


Phoenix is notorious for their salary-cutting, they unload players in order to avoid luxury tax rather than improving their team. Kurt Thomas was effective for them last season in the playoffs, and they just gave him away along with picks, does that mean that the Suns are better off as a team without Thomas? There is no doubt that Richardson would have had a better career in Phoenix playing with Steve Nash than in NY with Marbury and under the soap opera that is Isiah Thomas. Injuries did screw him up, but the fact still stands that pretty much no player became better than they were before after they joined the Knicks in quite some time.

This really does seem off topic, but I'm just saying that some of the stuff that he said, at least the ones you listed, aren't all that ridiculous. If you really have that much time on your hand, go back in there and find a few that are truly off the mark.

ehmunro

Is your opinion that a healthy Oden would be sitting so that Frye could get those 12-15 m/g? If so you must be seeing something in Frye that no one else in the NBA does.

Did you miss all the stories about Portland wanting to unload Randolph that were appearing about five minutes after the lottery finished? If you follow the NBA that little why are you even here?

I'm not comparing anything here. I understand that you've taken on the hopeless task of defending alphaorange (why I don't know), and so you're dancing as fast as you can and throwing up as much smoke as you can to change the subject. But it isn't working. His claim was as silly then as it is now. No matter how many times you shout, "Look!!! A pony!!!" no one's looking. Sorry.

I'd say that the also injured Joshy was in their future plans. And that there just isn't going to be a lot of room for Frye. Who knows, maybe he'll turn into an end of the rotation player at his next stop. I doubt you'll see Portland spring the money to sign an extra body unless Oden's injury proves to be more serious than we've all been led to believe. With yet another lottery pick coming I'd say that the Channing Frye era in Portland is just about over.

I suppose then you'd be surprised to learn that Richardson is actually playing more efficiently with the Knicks and the "selfish Marbury" and the "soap opera that is Isiah Thomas" than he did in Phoenix with the "awesome, unselfish, pure, pass-first" Steve Nash? Of course, in Phoenix he fired up more shots, which inflated his numbers. But in New York he's shooting better and scoring more efficiently. Of course, he's also managed to play about 100 games in the last two seasons, so I'd say that the injuries just might have a little more to do with his hobbling around the court than Isiah, Stephon, and "the atmosphere in New York".

__________________
"The Spurs are the Jason Voorhees of the NBA. No matter how many times you think you've finally killed them, turn your back on them and they're right back on their feet, machete in one hand and chainsaw in the other."

"Tim Duncan is the biggest crybaby in the NBA. If the Spurs were gay, he'd be Liberace." MCD

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

"I do not know what the Queensberry rules are, sir, but the Wilde rules are to shoot on sight!" Oscar Wilde to the Marquis of Queensbury after being threatened by the former pugilist.

Those who are in the know praise Dead Women Tell No Tales:

"The account of Kobe participating in orgies and the description of the surroundings is accurate. I attended few of those parties myself..." -- Jondell R. Montgomery, Long Beach, 2006

seifer0406

I never knew NBA plays 3 on 3 basketball. You have Oden and Aldridge starting at C and PF, and you have Prizbilla as your only backup C/PF. Unless you're implying that the Blazers wanted both Oden and Aldridge to play 40+ min a game, there is a need for a backup pf/c somewhere. Prizbilla also only averaged 1.6 bpg (his supposed purpose in the NBA) and under 4 rebounds in 43 games. They are counting on him as their only option?

Did you say McRoberts? Are you just pulling out random 2nd rounders that haven't proved a thing in the NBA and placing him over Frye? Quite objective analysis skills you're presenting here. It's funny that you mentioned hatred for players, because I'm beginning to think that theres something going on between you and Frye.

Just because there are rumors about a team wanting to unload a player doesn't mean that you can throw any player in there and say that he would've made a better deal for NY. I mean, why stop there, forget Balkman, why didn't NY get Randolph for Jerome James?



Looks like somebody doesn't know what the hell he's typing. It's alright though, it didn't start here.


It's not really my point, but do provide some concrete proof about Richardson being a better player in NY than he was in Phoenix and LA. He's still shooting about the same FG% the past few seasons, about the same FT attempts, and pretty much the same stats across the board. Not to mention he is having a slow start this season. Anyway, this wasn't the point as I said that his injury has a lot to do with his dwindling career and there are plenty of examples around him. Just name one player that has gotten better (in a indisputable manner) since being traded or signed by the Knicks in the Isiah era. Pardon my knowledge of the Knicks, but Eddy Curry is probably the closest thing to what I'm looking for here and he's still far from being a player that you can win games with. I honestly don't know why you arguing with me about this point, if theres nothing wrong with the basketball environment of the current Knicks, then why are there so many people want their coach/GM fired and go into complete rebuild?

ehmunro

Random second rounder? You do realise that he's Oden's BFF, right? No matter how bad he is he isn't going anywhere till Oden's john hancock is on a five year extension. With a backup center, a starting center, a starting power forward, two backup power forwards, and yet another lottery pick coming, there's going to be a numbers game in Portland. Unless Oden's injury is more serious than we've been told, Frye will be losing the numbers game. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Maybe because The Texas Double Whopper would have devoured the cash savings in swapping Z-Bo for Francis? (Both literally and figuratively, there's some good eatins on a ben franklin.) The rule of thumb is that when you're trading a troubled player with a hideous contract that the best you can expect is someone with a shorter deal, which is what Portland got. Swapping Z-Bo for Franchise saved the Blazers about $30 million in green. If New York had an expiring deal to trade, they probably could have got a draft pick back for eating Randolph's contract. They didn't need to send Frye to complete the deal. Much like Portland didn't really need to trade Telfair last year to get Roy. The 'Blazers were just looking to offload a lottery bust in that trade. Just as New York did in the Randolph deal. And this remains irrelevant to alphaorange's claim.

No, you started several posts back. Why, no one knows. But at this point you've typed about 108,000 words in defense of alphaorange and have yet to actually defend any of his laughers or give your alternate theory as to why he keeps comping players with zilch in common except his like/dislike? Since you're obviously going to subject us to another quarter million words before this is over, could you please tell us whether during those quarter million words you're going to make any attempt to justify his rather laughable claims?

So, wait, two posts ago he was outstanding in LA and Phoenix and collapsed in New York, because of Isiah and Stephon, but most decidedly not because of all the injuries, but now he has "the same stats across the board"? So if his stats are exactly the same (which they aren't), what has made him a washout in new York? Oh yeah, that'd be the injuries that have him hobbling around the court. During his "breakout" year in LA, his aFG% was .454 and his PP/FGA number .968, in Phoenix that went up to .498/1.044 and in the "atmosphere of New York" last season it was up to .507/1.064. So, um, yeah, in the three ring circus he shot better and scored more efficiently, just like I told you. His stats were also down across the board as he was firing up fewer shots than he did in Phoenix.

__________________
"The Spurs are the Jason Voorhees of the NBA. No matter how many times you think you've finally killed them, turn your back on them and they're right back on their feet, machete in one hand and chainsaw in the other."

"Tim Duncan is the biggest crybaby in the NBA. If the Spurs were gay, he'd be Liberace." MCD

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

"I do not know what the Queensberry rules are, sir, but the Wilde rules are to shoot on sight!" Oscar Wilde to the Marquis of Queensbury after being threatened by the former pugilist.

Those who are in the know praise Dead Women Tell No Tales:

"The account of Kobe participating in orgies and the description of the surroundings is accurate. I attended few of those parties myself..." -- Jondell R. Montgomery, Long Beach, 2006

seifer0406

This doesn't prove a thing about McRoberts being a legitimate backup for the Blazers. He is a 2nd rounder that hasn't proved a thing in the NBA, teams don't trust these people with key rotation spots,*edit*

Did you miss the part about Prizbilla's averages last year and that he only played 43 games? Obviously not, because if you had the mental capacity to recognize that, you would've recognized another injury-prone backup in Raef Lafrentz who haven't been healthy since god knows when. So you have Oden and Aldridge as starters, with backup of Prizbilla, Lafrentz, McRoberts. Yeah, if I'm the GM, I sleep easy at night knowing I have a durable front court with no help needed. Did I mention Aldridge had his injuries woes last year as well? Lastly, lottery pick means it's coming next season, they still need someone to get them through this one. If Frye manage to put up solid numbers, which I don't know why you give him no chance for considering he's only what, 26? I don't see why he has 0 chance of being in Blazers rotation next year.



Still doesn't explain why you can just stick random players in there and said that they could've gotten the deal done with so and so. If you haven't noticed, I used James as an example because the trade wouldn't work with him, just like how Balkman probably would not work either.


I believe I said

a lot means majority, *edit*.

And his career did plummet after he moved to NY. A lot has to do with injuries, but Isiah Thomas isn't helping him as a coach. (I'm repeating myself because I sincerely believe that if I keep shouting insults at a moderator that people will think I'm wicked smart and not a flaming dipsnorkel) In his first year in NY he struggled, he got a bit better in the 2nd year, and this year he seems to be headed for a bad season. His other numbers did stay pretty much the same across the board, the rebounds, assists, etc.

Richardson was a bad example though because he was hurt. My original statement was that players don't get better playing in NY, and perhaps I should've used someone other than Q Rich to support that claim.

seifer0406

You were the one that started ridiculing another poster. I simply said that some of his posts weren't that ridiculous. A page later, you still haven't proved a thing which is rather odd because if they were that ridiculous, I'd figure you would have had a easier time.

It's a very simple discussion, and honestly I'm not even defending anybody. You posted something on a forum that's wrong, and someone called you out for it, that's all.

ehmunro

Actually, I rather politely pointed out to him that in my experience his talent evaluations were coloured by personal likes/dislikes. This I amply demonstrated by pulling a half a dozen examples of his claiming dissimilar players were alike, when all they had in common were his feelings for them. I openly laughed at his denial of the Marbury/Mayo comp, because he'd done it just a few posts previously.

Why is it up to me to disprove that Childress and Jeffries are the same player? They have very little in common as players, as Jeffries isn't even a good garbageman. Why do I have to disprove a claim that Josh Smith can never be an NBA 4? In fact he already does it. The only thing he really needs to be successful at it is an effective jumper (so that his defenders can't sag off him). He'd be a better power 3, but the need for the reliable jumper would still stand. Why do I have to disprove that Danny Fortson is the exact same player as Elton Brand? One of those two guys is a highly skilled and very intelligent player, and it ain't Danny Fortson. These were all laughable claims when he made them last year, they're laughable now. If you want to defend them, fine. But do it and stop with the Irish jig.

__________________
"The Spurs are the Jason Voorhees of the NBA. No matter how many times you think you've finally killed them, turn your back on them and they're right back on their feet, machete in one hand and chainsaw in the other."

"Tim Duncan is the biggest crybaby in the NBA. If the Spurs were gay, he'd be Liberace." MCD

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

"I do not know what the Queensberry rules are, sir, but the Wilde rules are to shoot on sight!" Oscar Wilde to the Marquis of Queensbury after being threatened by the former pugilist.

Those who are in the know praise Dead Women Tell No Tales:

"The account of Kobe participating in orgies and the description of the surroundings is accurate. I attended few of tho