urwhatueati8god

I think the best the Knicks would be able to do would be to move Crawford and Curry for Jamison. I doubt that they could do anything better than that, but if they could get any type of picks out of the deal than that would be awesome. I think all the trades are obtainable, but it's hard to tell. As for Marbury, he's rotten meat. Nobody would acquire him unless you paid them way too much money in the first place.

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Da Grinch

the knicks main issue has been the same for about 4 years .

they lack a force on their team that gives them the intensity they need to be truly successful.

they have talent , actually alot of it , they have scoring, rebounding size and even some defensive players , but those guys cant score .

i think ultimately a deal for artest really might be the kick in the pants the team needs , he is unstable, but he always plays hard , and he makes others play hard around him.

the knicks need smarter harder play.

here is what i would do

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/feature...~1~1&te=&cash=

in the end the knicks lineup would look like this

eddy , brad miller jerome james
zach, sheldon williams malik rose , abdur-rahim
artest balkman chandler,
qrich sstoudamire
crawford claxton collins

brad miller and sheldon williams are very good high post players both are known for their smart play and very good midrange jumpshots , miller especially is an extremely skilled passer , while williams is good defender and rebounder .

stoudamire is a zone buster , while claxton is a true point guard

abdur rahim is basically cap filler , the kings dont really have any use for him right now and he's eating up their cap , if Thomas can get any use for him all the better .

its bad to see Lee go but you got to give to get in this world...the knics are al little light on true 2's but they have plenty of guys who can slide over in collins crawford artest and even balkman has slided over before to decent results.

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"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players."-Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach

alphaorange

is doomed. Neither can or will pass....especially Randolph. Neither plays defense....especially Randolph. Both have too many turnovers. Curry doesn't board. And those are you mainstays? They have one rebounder in their starting line up. Crawford is no point guard. When he plays the one, his scoring suffers big time. Qrich may be finished as a front line player. Sorry but that team wins nothing, plus we had a zone buster for next to nothing and cut him. Lee is actually one of the best players we have as far as being complete and full effort guy and you trade him.....

We had a start last year but IT screwed it up by bring Zach here. He is as bad as all the Blazer fans said he would be.

Da Grinch

its funny , it really is how people live in such absolutes .

the knicks have only 1 rebounder in their starting lineup?( richardson grabbed 15 yesterday , 6.7 in 29 minutes agame at the 3 spot , in addition to randolph by my count)

curry cant board so the zach-eddy union cant work, yet the knicks rebound extremely well.

http://www.covers.com/pageLoader/pag...gular.html&t=0

they are 3rd in the league in rebounding margin....how much more improvement do you really need from curry when thats the case?

and its not like Lee is such a worldbeater these days that his impact is the only thing the knicks have as a hope not to be crummy ,

Zach has his flaws, but he he is still a much better player than lee, he is even rebounding better which is lee's main strength as a player.


Lee this season has been decent , but not the player he was last year and pretty much has shown why he isn't really a starter in this league yet.

in his 1st start he put up 14 and 14 and udonis not only did better with 16 and 16 but made key defensive and rebounding plays down the stretch that were missing from the knicks starting 4 that game .

in his 2nd start he was just bad going 2-10 from the field (coupled with the 6-15 effort in the heat game and you can see he just really seems to better off going up against reserves rather than starters) while the guy he was guarding went 9-14 for 23 points and 7 boards while he garnered 4 points and 5 boards.

the 3rd game he started he played very well, he got his #'s(24 and 16) against career reserve mikki moore who is avg. a mighty 5 points and 4 boards this season .

the most important stat is of course they were 0-3 in those games , so i'm having a hard time figuring why people have such a hard on for Lee starting when the games really prove he has no business starting, especially ahead of randolph .

in many ways he is a slightly bigger more physically talented haslem but haslem makes plays when his team needs them, he makes a defensive impact on games both on his man and in the team concept and he is a willing taker and maker of open mid-range J's , things Lee is still struggling with.

and actually historically Crawford scores very well at the 1 and more efficiently enjoying his height advantage to shoot over smaller players...all any1 has to do is check 82games.com or just look up his stats when he has started at pg , he is actually slightly better at pg.

has nichols played an nba minute yet?

he has busted no zones as of yet because the rest of his game doesn't get him on the court, just like it didn't in ny and he is a natural 3 when the knicks are extremely stocked at that position

you are for the most part spouting cliches' that are inaccurate.

__________________
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players."-Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach

alphaorange

But you are clueless as how to look inside of them. Randolph is a better scorer than Lee. True. He is a better rebounder? Don't think so. He's off to a good start on the boards but we'll see where he ends up. He's a walking turnover. No denying that. He's the worst black hole I've ever seen. His defense is atrocious. He shooting what 40%. Lee is AT LEAST his equal as a rebounder, a better defender, a better passer, a better FT shooter, and a huge advantage at FG%. I don't believe Lee is a star in any way. He IS however a much more valuable player to the TEAM concept. Zach may be a nice guy but his game puts far too much pressure on his teammates on defense and slows the offense to a crawl with his non-passing and turnovers. Twelve games plus pre-season is not a too small sample to draw conclusions. They are NOT the offensive juggernaut you predicted...in fact, only seven teams score less. Defensively they are worse. Only three teams shoot a lower % and only 6 teams give up a higher %. So it makes sense to you to put a guy that has few TOs, plays decent defense, gives you a double/double nearly every night with a few assists, a couple of steals, and shoots far better from the floor and the line on the bench while Zach starts? Sorry, even one guy like that hurts(Curry), two is death. Randolph is NO..NONE..NADA..of a defensive factor. Never was, never will be. That is a complete BS statement that can't be backed up in any way. JC is not a PG or he'd be playing it, don't you think. He's had chances. Dnic not playing on the Cavs has nothing to do with his playing here. He is not needed at Cleveland. Other more experienced guys are doing OK. Still on the team, though, isn't he? Even an idiot should realize there is a ton of politics involved. You trade for a big contract, he better play. Guaranteed contracts win out over non nearly every time. That team you just constructed will be horrible. There isn't a real star anywhere to be found. No playoffs for that one.

alphaorange

we weren't comparing Lee to Haslem. Far as I could tell, it was Lee/Zach. And it was about who was better for the TEAM, not one on one scoring.

Mateo

The problem is that the Knicks have too many one dimensional players. I've said it time and again, you can't simply acquire a guy who's good at scoring and a guy who's good at rebounding and a guy who's good at defending and stick them together and think you have all the pieces. Players have to play on both ends while they're in the game. That's why it's a big problem when you have specialists. That's what this team has too much of. Marbury is a ball-handling and scoring specialist. He stinks at everything else. Curry is a scoring specialist; he stinks at everything else. Jeffries is a defensive specialist; he stinks at everything else. Ditto to Balkman. Randolph and Lee at least have 2 things that they are pretty good at. No one else really does, though.

alphaorange

Actually, Lee is a decent scorer down low. No Curry, but he does OK as a complimentary guy. His weakness is his jumper. If he had a good one, he'd be one of the best. I agree, with you, though. We need a team of basketball players. Not athletes that play ball...not streetballers....not boneheads. Think Phoenix...the Spurs...those type of teams.

Da Grinch

as usual when responding to your posts , Reading is fundamental.

i didn't actaully say randolph is a better rebounder , I posted he is rebounding better (that means currently present tense being used and all), thats a fact ...unlike in portland zach has alot of help on the boards and on the offensive side of the ball, so his rebounding spike may not be an abberration or it just might be, time will tell...but he is boarding better than lee right now , to dispute it in any way makes you look stupid, like you cant do 2nd grade math, so i am just going to assume you misread my post yet again.

i know my posts seem to strike a cord with you , i assume because the truth hurts your fanboy feelings on lee and your other favorites..,like frye who is not exactly making a fool of thomas for trading him seeing as the blazers have a major hole in the post with zach gone and oden out for the year ....yet they only see fit to play him 19 minutes a game and he is avg. only 6 points .

maybe Zeke isn't at fault after all, he may still have a good future but the idea he should have played ahead of curry or instead of curry is looking more ridiculous by the day....since you want to pull up posting history .

and the knicks haven't been scoring well lately but they started out well, only faltering when they went out west and zach started missing games , he appears back in a groove now and lookie there a win as recently as yesterday.

see thats the difference between zach and lee , he has pretty %'s but when he is matched against starters he doesn't produce wins , he isn't really a factor because he isn't a starting caliber player , which is why the only game in which he really played well stats aside is the game he was matched up against another bench player masquerading as a starter in mikki moore, when he went up against haslem and marion he looked bad and was outplayed and haslem is no worldbeater but he looked like one in the 4th quarter of the knicks-heat game...but i wont dispute he can beat the snot out of their backups on the court.


if lee is such a better defender who does he stop or slow down ?

does he give good help on penetrators? ...no usually when he does come over all he does is put his hands straight up in the air and doesn't move them , any scorer worth his salt can easily shoot over them and does, when in fact lee does come which is really not all that often.

those are really the 2 main factors of power forward defense and he doesn't excel at either , at least zach can outproduce whomever he is matched up with no matter who that person is if he cant stop them or slow them down...and the knicks defense really hasn't been any worse or better than it was last year so its hard to see where your beating your chest over it has any merit.

heck he isn't even avg. more steals or assists than zach who made few very nice passes yesrerday, i dont believe for a second that zach cant pass , i believe he believes more in his shot than any1 else's unless he thinks he is passing for a layup or dunk, its just how most scorers are until they gain faith in their teammates making more difficult shots...and recently the knicks really haven't been making those shots so he hasn't been passing for them much , i would assume if he were to continue that way and it became a detriment to the team he would be benched ...it hasn't happened yet...nor is it likely as long as lee is playing the way he is.

see the thing with lee is he got a few starts and he didn't make the impact that you and kiya posts that he always makes , the reason is of course because usually he is playing other backups and among backups Lee is a star, a 6th man of the year candidate any season he comes off the bench for the forseeable future , against starters he is mediocre at best....for instance in your post you mentioned "huge" edge lee has in fg%, it has mostly come against in his work as a backup , he shot .432 in those games he started not much better than Zach's .414, a number that would have been far lower if he didn't get to pad his stats against career journeyman mikki moore (he shot 32% against marion and haslem)

value to me is shown by helping your team and your ability to help in that end, Lee had 3 games and they didn't win any of them and in the heat game if any heat player cost the knicks the game it was haslem who was Lee's man so he really hasn't won any points with me in the he should be starting argument especially with his defense, yesterday the knicks beat the bulls and pretty much led the whole game, lee hardly even played, only 11 minutes , so his value to me isn't really all that high...but his trade value is pretty high, much more than his actual value. So to me he is perfect trade bait. the knicks can lose with out him , so the question is how does he help them win?

and this season he hasn't really done much to that end.

in fact in the knicks wins randolph has exceeded him both points and rebounds in all 3 games , curry has outscored him in all 3 outrebounded him in 2 and tied him with 7 in the t'wolves game,

JC plays 2 guard because if wasn't it would be in fred jones' hands and thats not gonna work he is still 6'5 or 6'6 so he can play both spots at a starters level right now....mardy nate fred jones and marbury cant unless some improvements are made in parts of their games, and nate grows which appears unlikely.

he is avg. 4.8 assists a game good # of starting pg's(about 1/3 of the leagiue's starting pg's) in this league are currently averaging less..so his passing eye really shouldn't in question for any1 who knows the game...and i think its been pretty obvious he has been passing up shots he could have taken to play in the team concept for a few years now, not that you can see it.

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"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players."-Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach

Da Grinch

also the cavs aren't the world's deepest team, ira newble has played 123 minutes this season , i find it hard to believe they cant find 1 for nichols if he is the player you tout him to be.

__________________
"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players."-Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach

ehmunro

Napalm might be a good start.

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"Tim Duncan is the biggest crybaby in the NBA. If the Spurs were gay, he'd be Liberace." MCD

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

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Those who are in the know praise Dead Women Tell No Tales:

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eddymac

The Knicks should have never did the deal for Marbury back in 04. They should have used the lottery to rebuild their team. Then let the contracts of Keith Van Horn, Charlie Ward, Mutombo, Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, Clarence Whetherspoon expire. All those contracts would have been expired in the summer of 04 through 06.

Looking at their current roster they have some young players with promise. David Lee, Renaldo Balkman, Nate Robinson, Wilson Chandler, Mardy Collins, Jamal Crawford, Eddie Curry and Morris Randolph. The problem is that they dont have an identity. Are they a Suns type team or are they a half court type team. The defense is also a problem as good as Randolph and Curry are on offense they are just as bad defensively. In order to be a good team it starts on the defensive end. Offense is not the problem defense is the problem and thats something that needs to be addressed.

If I were Isiah I would try and make a deal for Ron Artest. He would be an upgrade over Richardson. Artest could do a little of everything he can score and can defend the perimeter as well as the post. The Knicks dont have any shotblockers upfront. All the Knicks bigs Curry, Randolph, Lee, Rose, Morris aren't shotblockers. Thats a problem that isiah needs to address as well.