USSKittyHawk

That's unfortunate that he isn't on your team.

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David_Ortiz

IMO if the team rebuilt around Randolph and Curry and somehow cleaned out the garbage (Marbury, JC, Q, JJ, etc.) and somehow replaced them with playmakers, defenders, and a couple of shooters not named Q-Rich or Jamal Crawford (and of course fired IT) I think the team would be OK. But that's just me.

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GrandKenyon6

Nope. All of alpha's posts in this thread are correct. How anyone can think Zach Randolph is a good player is beyond me. He is one of the biggest black holes in the history of the game, an atrocious defender, and a cancerous malcontent whose play leads to no ball movement and stand around offense just like alpha said. He can be decent as the primary scorer on a 2nd unit though.

knickstorm

what happened to all those people that got on me last year when i said marbury was a total loser? where i said everywhere he goes, the team goes straight downhill, any team he leaves, instantly gets better..........man i forget who kept trying to tell me he never had shooters around him, he used to be immature etc......

Isiah needed to go last year.........and i saw a stat in SI the other day.....out of all the ballers, the person with the worst win-loss record is.............Jamal Crawford. This team is horrendous, i dont wanna hear all this "no time to rebuild cuz we're ny" because at this point fans will understand rebuilding rather than sink in mediocrity for a decade...........even if we rebuild, can it get any worse?? So fire Thomas, wait for marbury's 21 to get off the cap......use your lotto pick well and we'll see where we are.

alphaorange

I agreed with all of what you wrote. My lone reservation was that Marbury actually played well most of last year. I wondered if he had finally got it. Nope. I never believed in IT as a Coach or a GM. I'm on record many times as admiring his ability to draft. I still agree with you.

In response to those that said the perfect players don't exist: True, but there are tons of players with more complete games that anyone on our starting roster. What is KG's weakness? LJ's? Kobes? Nash's? Duncans? There are tons more that are not superstars. So, Kitty, I absolutely disagree with you. If Kobe was on this team, it would not be this bad. He simply would not allow it. He would have called people out a long time ago. I guess the question is this. Can you exploit a particular player's weakness easily? If so, he must go as a mainstay. Perhaps they would be better suited as a particular specialist off the bench. Our team is constructed of specialists and losers.

And Chan....winners are born. They are born with the inherit "stuff" inside that allows them to develop the skills they need to succeed. It has been well established that people are a combination of "nature and nurture". What makes Nash LJ Duncan KG winners is as much as whats inside as outside. THAT they are born with.

Da Grinch

1st of all the whole idea that winners are "born" not made is crazy.

winning is about talent , desire, sacrifice and attitude and 3 out of those 4 things are learned in its entirety , and the 4th (talent) needs t0 be honed with hard work as well.

its basically like stating that you can tell who is a "winner " while playing dodgeball in kindergaten , and whomever you decide isn't one the book is witten on them throughout their lives.

if it were really the case the winners would have high school titles...then get ncaa titles and internationally and finally start winning in the nba.

alpha you mentioned Nash as a winner , but to my knowledge he has never won anything at any level(college, pro, internationally, high school,)

and the team he last left became a bonafide title contender after he left them for nothing

also for some reason i think this thread would have turned out far different if it was started 2 days earlier.

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"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races--that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together in terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."- Abraham Lincoln Sixth Debate with Steven A. Douglas at Quincy, Ill., Oct. 13, 1858

alphaorange

Nash is not a winner because he doesn't have a ring? About as ignorant a statement as can be made. No one EVER said that the only winners wear rings. Anyone that watched Nash last year in the playoffs and still says he is not a winner is a *******. Also if you think that characteristics that lend themselves to leadership and performance are entirely learned, you need to go back to school. I can't tell you how many families have kids raised exactly the same way, with the same values, turn out entirely different. Peyton vs. Eli? It isn't just the way they drop back and throw. They lead differently as well. Those qualities you mention are NOT entirely learned. You think MJs father TAUGHT him to have that killer instinct? Please...inborn. The content of that last post is complete, inaccurate trash. If successful leaders could be "made", there wouldn't be such a shortage. West Point and Annapolis strive to turn all their young men into leaders. Best training in the world working with the best talent available. Does the majority go on to be leaders in their given professions?

BTW, Dallas became a "bona fide" contender when they got AJ as coach. Two days ago the thread would have been the same from my point of view. People are so desperate for a winner in NY they want to believe anything positive is a sign of great things on the horizon. This team is not even close to having what it takes mentally and from a discipline POV.

Chan

I've never heard of a winner that didn't win anything.

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Hey, look. Another one.

alphaorange

He's won plenty, including am MVP award. Twice. If you are trying to say that only players on title teams are winners, thats beyond ignorant. Leaves a whole lotta players out, doesn't it? Ewing, Oakley, Reggie, Malone, Stockton, and the list goes on and on. Conversely, you must be saying that if you're on a championship team, you're a winner. Right? I guess that list would include a bunch of crappy players that rode on the tails of MJ, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, and others. It takes more than being a winner to win the ultimate prize. It takes everything coming together...a little luck....a lot of talent..and the stars in alignment.

Chan

You missed the entire point. I'm saying there's no such thing as anyone being labeled a winner or a loser. Teams win, and teams lose. Individuals don't win or lose.

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Hey, look. Another one.

Kiyaman

Teams WIN Ball Games!
not individual selfish talent inwhich we have in the Knicks Starting-5 lineup.

The Knicks have a Starting-5 lineup inwhich each player has never made their teammates talent better in their career in the NBA. Yet some Fool G.M. gave them a Big Money contract for never playing DEFENSE.

When Isiah threw everyone out of Practice, he should have FINED each one of the Players and his BUM coaching staff.
The Starting 5-Players Fine should've been 10 times the amount of everyone else.
I too would rather see the Knicks young lineup 1979-80 season Ray Williams, Sugar Ray Richardson, Kenny Bannister, Toby Knight, and Rookie Bill Cartwright 49 WIN Season, rather than any of Isiah Thomas BUM lineups over the last 4 seasons.

I see more team play out of my 10 year old Grandson Basketball team then I do from the Knicks "One on One" individual play on offense and defense. Any Team that goes into a 2-3 Zone have the chance to go on a 10-0 run on Curry, Zach, Q.Rich, Craw, and Marbury.
I'm still waiting for the SHOOTER in Q.Richardson to arrive in New York, this is his 3rd season and all he has done was leave his oponent open to run in the paint to steal a defensive-rebound from the Knicks PF, and Fans wonder why the Peremeter is always wide open for shooters.
Q.Rich & Crawford is scared to drive or slash to the basket for a layup or dunk. What good are they when their oponent is doing this to them.

You know this Knick Team is desperate and Horrible when they have to depend on an inconsistent Jamal Crawford to score for a WIN in crunchtime.
I watch how many games poor shooting Jason Kidd has WON with taking the last shot in just a half a season, and he totals more WINS in a half a season with his poor shooting than Jamal Crawford did in his career in the NBA...

USSKittyHawk

Guys this isn't the 70's Knicks anymore, let it go....unless you want to pop in a hardwood classic dvd and relive the pass. There are great players out there who are team players and are winners, but the majority of them don't play on the Knicks. Until we get a GM who knows what to look for in terms of being a team player and a winner....we are going to be screwed for a while.

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Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
This country was born with a huge birth defect, slavery. -Condoleezza Rice
PLEASE BEWARE THIS POSTER MAY GO ON THE DEEP END AT ANY GIVEN TIME. Use Caution!

alphaorange

Chan you're naive. I simply can't fathom why this concept is beyond you. Certain people have what it takes to push, pull, or drag their team to a higher level. It doesn't always culminate in a title. They are dedicated to their profession in all ways and people gravitate to them, They are winners and they are born with the POTENTIAL to be so. Its the same in every field and life endeavor. You have all met then before and you know who they are.

alphaorange