USSKittyHawk

Did you read the post correctly? So you trying to say there aren't any team players and winners on the Knicks? For example: David Lee, he is one of the few team players on this team and understand about winning coming from a great program in Florida. Balkman is another winner, how was his NIT performance?

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Chan

You mean the killer instinct?

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Hey, look. Another one.

Da Grinch

whats ignorant is declaring some1 a winner based off of a bias award win .

is bob macadoo a winner ?

he has also won 2 MVP's and unlike nash he actually has a title under his list of accomplishments ...history has a funny way of depicting him a selfish scorer yet according to what makes nash a winner he has to be considered a great winner.

winners win , nash has never won anything that has mattered as a team player at any level....you wanna declare nash a winner because he lost valiantly against the spurs ?

are you serious , heck marbury has done that and even as a sun .

you are grasping at straws , because you know in your heart its really simple , you are what you constantly do (thats not me thats Socrates)

Nash is no great winner proven by the fact the Mavs lost him for nothing and got better , if was so great and so important that couldn't have happened.

what winner in history of the NBA could claim that .

could the spurs lose duncan, the bulls lose MJ or any team really what team can lose a great player for nothing and replace him with a significantly lower caliber level of player and get better ...if nash were some great winner who made every1 better around him it would seem to be an impossible thing to have happen.

and who cares about payton and eli the decisions that make you a better player are personal and every1 decides on their own(provided you have enough talent for it to matter) what their mentality is and their priorities are as a player, archie manning cant make that decision for his kids, no one can but the person themselves.

MJ's killer instinct wasn't enough for him to make his high school team at 1st , he had to make the personal choices after that point that made him the player he is , the simple truth is he didn't win many basketball games at that stage in his life , in fact he himself credits his older brother Larry for honing his killer instict by virtue of the daily buttkickings he got in their backyard b-ball court until after his growth spurt allowed him something like a an 8 inch heigh advantage in MJ's jr.& sr. years in HS and he could finally beat him.

If jordan himself doesn't consider his "killer instinct" inborn how do you think you sound being so insistent that it was?

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"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races--that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together in terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."- Abraham Lincoln Sixth Debate with Steven A. Douglas at Quincy, Ill., Oct. 13, 1858

alphaorange

Your crap is just not worth responding to in any meaningful way. You're either too dumb or too stubborn to get it. Nash won a biased award? Chris Paul didn't seem to think so. Jesus, man...j e r k

Da Grinch

the 1st year he won it should have gone to shaq...since the team he left went into the lottery and the team he went to became a title contender...while the team nash went to became very good but was never a team that really had a chance to win a title

the 2nd year dirk, since his team made that jump to viable title contender .

how 'bout that MJ , his killer intinct still "inborn"?

so sad...no one agrees with you because you are as wrong as can be.

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"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races--that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together in terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."- Abraham Lincoln Sixth Debate with Steven A. Douglas at Quincy, Ill., Oct. 13, 1858

Chan

Ha. Da Grinch wins.

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Hey, look. Another one.

ChosenFEW

i guess alpha and grinch wont be sending each other christmas cards this year

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alphaorange

Either you are not smart enough to follow logic, or you are just too damn argumentative to ever agree. What other changes were made as far as Dallas becoming a contender? This would include player acquisitions, players developing and maturing, coaching changes, etc. They're all relevant. As far as who should have gotten the MVP, well, thats your opinion, and others as well. The fact is, more people thought Nash should have gotten it or he would not have. Even as a runner up, it still supports my argument. Second in the league is still top tier. What is your asinine comment about MJ? You have some insight? Spill it. You have not discredited in any way what I posted. Let me clear about whether or not I care about people disagreeing with me. I don't. In order for me to consider that someone else has a valid point, I'd have to be convinced they have a logic to their thoughts that transcend race, style, and favoritism. Few have shown that here...certainly not you. Certainly not Chan. Kitty, we're talking aboout the make-up of the starters on the Knicks. Its clear from an earlier post on this site that i like Lee and Balkman. Both are guys to keep...provides they have the right guys with complimentary styles around them.
From earlier posts:

"Actually, Lee is a decent scorer down low. No Curry, but he does OK as a complimentary guy. His weakness is his jumper. If he had a good one, he'd be one of the best."

"Lee? Starter with the right guys around him. 12-14/10-12 board guy. Balkman? Depends on the team around him. We don't need journeymen. We need a stud."

Happy Kitty?

Damn right McAdoo was a winner. I had the pleasure of watching the Braves with he and Ernie D give a lot of team all they could handle. You better check his rebounds and blocks, too, bonehead. Injuries killed his career but he was the last to average 30/15. As usual you know NOTHING about what you post. He also averaged 2-3 assists (great for a guy with out the ball in his hands all the time), and 1.5 blocks, and a steal. They didn't go down until he started getting hurt. Next time pick a subject you actually know something about....if there is one. Chan, you shouldn't try to piggy back on someone else's argument. Come up with your own ideas or facts and go at it. BTW, Grinch...Mac won ONE MVP, not two. Can't you get anything right? Marbury..valiantly lost? The line of people willing to say that is short...like your bus. The basis of my comments are based on research, unlike yours which are simply your own feelings. You're not nearly so smart as you would like to have everyone believe. You DO write well, its your content thats essentially worthless.

USSKittyHawk

I didn't mention the word "starters", I said the vast majority of the guys on this "team" aren't team players. Read the "original" post again and don't assume. Happy now?

__________________
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
This country was born with a huge birth defect, slavery. -Condoleezza Rice
PLEASE BEWARE THIS POSTER MAY GO ON THE DEEP END AT ANY GIVEN TIME. Use Caution!

Da Grinch

this is cute but ok i'll play along.

my comments about MJ are "assinine"

ok I am a bonehead and apparently took the short bus because i dont know what I'm talkiing about .

this is what i wrote:

http://www.fazeteen.com/articles/jordan.htm

i know , i know who is Fazeteen.com , so here is one from Time.com.





http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...6692-3,00.html

if you need more on this subject i suggest you go read "The Jordan Rules" by Sam Smith , its a good book.

that MJ got his drive from b-ball battles with his brother is such common knowledge you really should be ashamed of yourself...that time.com article is 19 years old, the fact that you want to resort to namecalling over it is something that is so hilarious I honestly cant even get mad , i have to admit I laughed quite a bit .

perhaps you can look up interviews with his parents who i have also speak on the same subject , but i dont have any off hand links to that for you...or rent some of MJ's dvd's last i checked i think Come fly with me had an interview in which he spoke of his getting cut from HS and compteting with his brother in the backyard to gain that "inborn" edge you seem so sure happened at birth.

now I can readily admit I misspoke about Bob macadoo , you are right he only won 1 MVP , but his perception as a selfish loser i wasn't wrong about it didn't change until he was a laker ...

i know its only nba.com but for now it will have to do.

http://aol.nba.com/history/finals/19811982.html


as for nash if you look at the nba predictions headed into that season , no one expected the mavs to move up as a team with their offseason moves , but without nash they became a more viable nba title contender,

but analysts actually had them going in the other direction

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...cks/index.html

http://aol.nba.com/preview2004/west_forecast.html

no one had them winning anything unlike the previous year

the simple fact of the matter was that most people thought nash and the decline of finley , plus they traded away jamison and walker would have a negative effect on the team espite whatever improvements came from other players.

in fact it showed the perception was wrong Dirk and many others thought to need nash not only didn't regress they got better Dirk in particular really impressed, he(nash) wasn't the ultimate facilitator and apparently they were better off with a pg that didn't need the ball so much and defended better and allowed Nowitzki to show he was a top player in the game and should be in the running for the top player in the game

they went from 52 to 58 wins and got a round deeper in the playoffs

find me a team that loses an MVP winner that season and gets better and i'll concede your point, in fact i'll concede them all even the ones i've already proven silly in this very post. , but its never happened ...why because if you are the most valuable player in the league , your team wouldn't get better without you ....you are the top guy..its really in the wording (most valuable) ..its pointless to belabor that point any further, either you get it or you dont...so i'll let it go and wish you well.

__________________
"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races--that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together in terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."- Abraham Lincoln Sixth Debate with Steven A. Douglas at Quincy, Ill., Oct. 13, 1858

alphaorange

Agressive play doesn't mean Killer instinct. It means agressive play. Geez, are you think. Page me back when you find where it says his heart and desire come form something other than inside and, btw, it also doesn't mean that someone (anyone) else would have succeeded where he did. What about brother Larry? He apparently had the "agressive" play. MJ was special in and out. Is that so hard for you to admit? Where does he say it wasn't inborn? It says his brother helped him HONE it...meaning it was already there Can you do the reading comp. thing? Key phrase "Michael's determination to catch-up and win". Duh. Do ever read whole articles or just what suits your argument?

"The following season McAdoo was in the final year of his contract. Snyder, unwilling to meet McAdoo's money demands or lose him to free agency after the season, traded him at midyear to the New York Knicks. The Braves, who also threw in Tom McMillen, received John Gianelli and cash in return.

Although McAdoo still finished the 1976-77 season ranked fifth in the league in scoring (25.8 ppg), the move to New York was not a happy one. The Knicks were fraught with internal clashes during McAdoo's tenure. The rivalry between McAdoo and superstar teammate Spencer Haywood was particularly intense. Although McAdoo finished third in the league in scoring in 1977-78 (26.5 ppg), the Knicks traded him midway through the following season to Boston for Tom Barker and three first-round draft picks.

McAdoo learned of the trade by reading a newspaper. So did Boston General Manager Red Auerbach and player-coach Dave Cowens, who had not been consulted by Celtics owner John Brown and resented it. McAdoo felt unwelcome and found himself sitting while Cowens played center. He finished the 1978-79 campaign averaging 24.8 ppg in 60 games. The Celtics then dispatched McAdoo to the Detroit Pistons as compensation for Boston's free-agent signing of M. L. Carr.

McAdoo's two years in Detroit proved to be no happier. The Pistons were in turmoil, and McAdoo suffered a string of injuries. In 1980-81, he played in only six games for the Pistons and finally waived him after he filed a grievance with the players' association. "

Reread it and find the word "selfish". I see a bunch of bad situations...a star with a big ego...and still big production. Maybe you should check those rosters and see who's on them and why there might have been problems. There were never problems with him until he clashed with other egos. Lots of players have had that happen, but thats a whole another discussion, but I'm sure you'd agree that's true.

Da Grinch