simply put guys who have games who fit in around the stars of the team ...most role players are not all that good , but they the best ones accept their roles and use their skills in the team concept as best they can ...
i'd settle around june's draft pick(which should be top 5) eddy and jamal as the focal players on the team , all the top guys in the draft that the knicks should be interested in can fit around them somewhat easily , (beasly mayo and rose)
as for the role players , i'd go for versatile players who hustle, rebound and play defense .
the keepers (david lee , mardy collins and the team should go after artest and choose between chandler and balkman as his backup...if they dont get artest they should keep both of them)
outside of that group every1 is extremely tradeable to me.
in the paint i would go after enforcer/rebounder/leader types who can hit an outside jumpshot at least passably guys like kenyon martin , jermaine oneal, shelden williams, okafor,'sheed wallace , u.haslem, joe smith , kurt thomas , pj brown.
guys playing as role players on teams like the spurs (horry , omberto) arent any better but they do what they are supposed to do to make their stars more impactful...the knicks need more guys who are willing to do that ...and that guy(s) should be better than malik rose.
on the perimeter , basically i would want guys who play defense can handle the ball a bit and can shoot/score...i like the idea of a crawford/larry hughes backcourt, or even guys like marquis daniels obviously a guy like artest, marko jaric, sasha vuljanic,pietrus.
guys who are very attainable and in the right setting can be very useful.
I like your idea alot.
Do you believe that Drew Gooden could be that enforcer and rebounder type you mentioned earlier? He's not very gritty but I feel he's a solid rebounder, a good defender when he puts his mind too it and an excellent high post scorer (an excellent compliment to Curry). Gooden even blocks a shot on occassion which for us would be an upgrade.
As far as Crawford's backcourt mate, do you feel that Mike Miller fits? I really like his game and become a big fan of bringing him in here after finding out he is available. He's not a good defender but adequate at the very least (which is an upgrade slightly for us). At this point, I feel he'd be a much better option than Marko Jaric, Sasha Vujajic and Pietrus.
Do you believe that Drew Gooden could be that enforcer and rebounder type you mentioned earlier? He's not very gritty but I feel he's a solid rebounder, a good defender when he puts his mind too it and an excellent high post scorer (an excellent compliment to Curry). Gooden even blocks a shot on occassion which for us would be an upgrade.
As far as Crawford's backcourt mate, do you feel that Mike Miller fits? I really like his game and become a big fan of bringing him in here after finding out he is available. He's not a good defender but adequate at the very least (which is an upgrade slightly for us). At this point, I feel he'd be a much better option than Marko Jaric, Sasha Vujajic and Pietrus.
drew is a good rebounder and decent scorer he can score inside and out and he is talented but he isn't much of a leader or enforcer he would be much better for the knicks than lets say zach , even though zach is a better player , but i have doubts he would fit better next to curry than lets say david lee , which means he could come off the bench , i dont think he would tolerate that too well...its a situation where gooden does some things better than lee and lee does some things better than gooden(rebound, play with energy) to make up for curry's flaws ,its the sort of thing where it could mess up the team more because neither player is really bringing anything the other cant/wont and neither is much better than the other overall....also the guys i listed have a history of defending their teammates against rough play , something neither zach eddy drew or david lee have a history of doing , the only guy on the knicks roster who is known for this is jerome james , but he cant get court time.
a guy like mike miller would surely help out more but he would cost more to aquire , if the grizzlies were having a fire a sale i would definitely be on line with this , but it appears unlikely , they should have their pick of suitors come offseason...but he can handle , shoot and score , he is a smart player who fits his game around others , he is perfect....outside of his defense which you already mentioned.
the reason i named the players i did , in addition to their skillset , is that they are for the most part easily aquired, the knicks may have to take a bad contract or something else undesirable , but their teams aren't really attached to keeping them if a deal comes along.
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"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players."-Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
Without adding one or two draft picks you can't get Mike Miller. Grizzlies just declined a Mike Miller + Brian Cardinal trade for Jason Williams and Ricky Davis (expiring contracts).
As for the others, I believe that your team need some changes and I'll give some ideas here.
Zach Randolph may be talented but his trade value is low actually. His contract is long and although Chicago can use a player like him, I actually don't think that they're willing to involve Gooden in a trade for him (I was suggesting a Randolph + Q Rich trade for Gooden and Hughes since the season started). Indiana, on the other side, is a team where he can fit well. O'Brien is a coach who would love to have Randolph and his low post scoring skills (when he was in Philadelphia, they traded for Webber looking for low post scoring, although they didn't clicked well), so there is my idea (that also involves Portland):
NY trade Randolph and QRich to Indiana; trade Marbury and Malik Rose to Portland;
Indiana trade Jermaine O'Neal, Troy Murphy and Marquis Daniels to Knicks;
Portland trade Raef Lafrentz and a resigned Von Wafer (to fit salaries) to Indiana; trade Darius Miles and the Knicks 2nd round pick they've acquired in their Randolph trade to Knicks;
Why?
Honestly, as much this team deserves this, I can't believe that Isiah will be fired. At best, he would stay as the coach. Jermaine O'Neal love Isiah as a coach and as a person, and Isiah love O'Neal also. JO would embrace this team even in this actual situation, and he can be a good frontcourt mate for Curry.
Murphy would replace some of the Randolph post scoring and is a nice option coming of the bench, backing up both PF and C positions.
Marquis Daniels is a slasher, not a bad defender and can be used sometimes even at the PG spot.
Miles is a player that Isiah also like, an athletic SF who can play some defense (when healthy) and getting him is the price of getting rid of Marbury and getting your 2nd rounder back. Not to mention that although Knicks would be adding some salary, they would be saving some luxury tax, replacing Marbury bigger (although expiring) contract with Miles lesser contract, which expires after the 09-10 season, along with O'Neal and Marquis contracts.
As for Indiana, they save some salary and get Randolph (who may be a good fit in O'Brien system as it was explained) while getting rid of Marquis (who had some troubles this season), JO (who need a scenario change) and Murphy big contract. Lafrentz is an expiring contract and can also fit well with his good scoring in the perimeter. I also believe that QRich can play well with O'Brien.
Portland would increase their cap size in the next season, but both Marbury and Rose contracts are expiring. They would likely buyout Marbury contract and save more money. Malik would be a good locker room presence and can teach some good things with his experience to their kids.
I'll share more ideas later...
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Thrilled to reach the 2700th post! Coming with a
lot more of great trade ideas (the most beloved ones in this board), you can expect that!
Thanks to all members of this site, you guys are great.
This team is going to be rebuilt, and IT is not going to be part of it. Not as a coach...not as an executive. He has been very bad at both. There will be no acquisition of Miles...or Jermaine...or Hughes. They will unload Marbury by trade or buyout. Curry will be shopped but will probably end up here. Zach has to go, and will. Those two cannot exist together. It was a bad idea from the start. Just a bad trade. JC is NOT a pg and the team will try to do whatever they can to secure Rose if he comes out. Think Chris Paul type potential. If they miss on Rose and manage to be able to get Beasley, then the front line is set. Beasley, along with Lee, make up for Curry's lack of board work, and his perimeter game opens up the spaces for Curry to post and Lee to cut. They will still need a PG, and it will have to be a decent one (Arroyo?). If Beasley comes, Balkman or Chandler will have to go. If Rose is drafted, some of our guards will go. Collins might be the first, but surely Marbury is done here. We'll still need scoring, rebounding SF to match with Lee and Curry, or the front court will have to be changed up. There is enough cash and talent to get us the 2 picks we need. In a perfect world, we'd get the first pick, try to get Seattle's first pick by way of either JC and or Nate plus a future 1st pick (they could use a guy like JC since they have no real SG, I know Durant plays there but he fits better as a 3). If they could pry that pick from the sonics, it could end up as the #2 or top 5, at least. They could try to move up using that as bait and adding players. A long convoluted way of saying I'd kill to have Rose and Beasly. BTW, add Patrick Ewing Jr.....he has exactly what we need. He could replace either Chandler or Balkman or both if we got Beasley. I think he's a 2nd rounder.
This team is going to be rebuilt, and IT is not going to be part of it. Not as a coach...not as an executive. He has been very bad at both. There will be no acquisition of Miles...or Jermaine...or Hughes. They will unload Marbury by trade or buyout. Curry will be shopped but will probably end up here. Zach has to go, and will. Those two cannot exist together. It was a bad idea from the start. Just a bad trade. JC is NOT a pg and the team will try to do whatever they can to secure Rose if he comes out. Think Chris Paul type potential. If they miss on Rose and manage to be able to get Beasley, then the front line is set. Beasley, along with Lee, make up for Curry's lack of board work, and his perimeter game opens up the spaces for Curry to post and Lee to cut. They will still need a PG, and it will have to be a decent one (Arroyo?). If Beasley comes, Balkman or Chandler will have to go. If Rose is drafted, some of our guards will go. Collins might be the first, but surely Marbury is done here. We'll still need scoring, rebounding SF to match with Lee and Curry, or the front court will have to be changed up. There is enough cash and talent to get us the 2 picks we need. In a perfect world, we'd get the first pick, try to get Seattle's first pick by way of either JC and or Nate plus a future 1st pick (they could use a guy like JC since they have no real SG, I know Durant plays there but he fits better as a 3). If they could pry that pick from the sonics, it could end up as the #2 or top 5, at least. They could try to move up using that as bait and adding players. A long convoluted way of saying I'd kill to have Rose and Beasly. BTW, add Patrick Ewing Jr.....he has exactly what we need. He could replace either Chandler or Balkman or both if we got Beasley. I think he's a 2nd rounder.
I think "rebuilding" all depends on who is brought in and part of me still really thinks that Dolan won't bring in someone willing to necessarily do that. There hasn't been any indication of this from Dolan's past hirings or anything recently.
I almost want to keep Isiah around until after the draft simply because I think there is no way that he could botch our pick. I feel confident that Derrick Rose would be a Knick with Isiah in charge. Rose is exactly the kind of player we need and definitely would be pursued by Isiah who loves Chicago players.
Without adding one or two draft picks you can't get Mike Miller. Grizzlies just declined a Mike Miller + Brian Cardinal trade for Jason Williams and Ricky Davis (expiring contracts).
As for the others, I believe that your team need some changes and I'll give some ideas here.
Zach Randolph may be talented but his trade value is low actually. His contract is long and although Chicago can use a player like him, I actually don't think that they're willing to involve Gooden in a trade for him (I was suggesting a Randolph + Q Rich trade for Gooden and Hughes since the season started). Indiana, on the other side, is a team where he can fit well. O'Brien is a coach who would love to have Randolph and his low post scoring skills (when he was in Philadelphia, they traded for Webber looking for low post scoring, although they didn't clicked well), so there is my idea (that also involves Portland):
NY trade Randolph and QRich to Indiana; trade Marbury and Malik Rose to Portland;
Indiana trade Jermaine O'Neal, Troy Murphy and Marquis Daniels to Knicks;
Portland trade Raef Lafrentz and a resigned Von Wafer (to fit salaries) to Indiana; trade Darius Miles and the Knicks 2nd round pick they've acquired in their Randolph trade to Knicks;
Why?
Honestly, as much this team deserves this, I can't believe that Isiah will be fired. At best, he would stay as the coach. Jermaine O'Neal love Isiah as a coach and as a person, and Isiah love O'Neal also. JO would embrace this team even in this actual situation, and he can be a good frontcourt mate for Curry.
Murphy would replace some of the Randolph post scoring and is a nice option coming of the bench, backing up both PF and C positions.
Marquis Daniels is a slasher, not a bad defender and can be used sometimes even at the PG spot.
Miles is a player that Isiah also like, an athletic SF who can play some defense (when healthy) and getting him is the price of getting rid of Marbury and getting your 2nd rounder back. Not to mention that although Knicks would be adding some salary, they would be saving some luxury tax, replacing Marbury bigger (although expiring) contract with Miles lesser contract, which expires after the 09-10 season, along with O'Neal and Marquis contracts.
As for Indiana, they save some salary and get Randolph (who may be a good fit in O'Brien system as it was explained) while getting rid of Marquis (who had some troubles this season), JO (who need a scenario change) and Murphy big contract. Lafrentz is an expiring contract and can also fit well with his good scoring in the perimeter. I also believe that QRich can play well with O'Brien.
Portland would increase their cap size in the next season, but both Marbury and Rose contracts are expiring. They would likely buyout Marbury contract and save more money. Malik would be a good locker room presence and can teach some good things with his experience to their kids.
I'll share more ideas later...
I look forward to hearing some of those ideas.
As far as Isiah goes, the last thing that I would want him to remain as with this team is the coach. He's not nearly the X's and O's guy I thought him to be. I think that he needs to be an assistant coach for a few seasons before he's able to really manage the responsibilities of being a head coach. Evaluating talent is truly his calling and should be his job with this team. He has shown time and time again in the draft that he has a keen eye selecting solid players and making trades (aside from the financial aspect of it).
About Mike Miller, I thought the proposed trade between the Grizzlies and Heat involved only ONE expiring contract for Mike. I also thought that Pat Riley was the one who balked at the trade and not the Grizzlies organization , valuing the financial flexibility and prospects of fixing their mess with it more. If this is the case, I think the Knicks definately would be in the discussion especially given the likelihood we'd take a contract like Cardinal's. As far as a draft pick goes, the Knicks could send a couple 2nd round picks and cash incentives along with Marbury to get the deal to work. It should be one of the best deals on the table.
Cardinal's contract would be where it stops, however, with taking bad contracts from other teams. If we get too out of hand with those sorts of trades, we'd end up in the same situation we were in during the Scott Layden era; a bunch of serviceable players that are vastly overpaid, for far too long a time. I say lay off the kind of trades you mentioned unless we're completely fleecing these teams talent wise.
drew is a good rebounder and decent scorer he can score inside and out and he is talented but he isn't much of a leader or enforcer he would be much better for the knicks than lets say zach , even though zach is a better player , but i have doubts he would fit better next to curry than lets say david lee , which means he could come off the bench , i dont think he would tolerate that too well...its a situation where gooden does some things better than lee and lee does some things better than gooden(rebound, play with energy) to make up for curry's flaws ,its the sort of thing where it could mess up the team more because neither player is really bringing anything the other cant/wont and neither is much better than the other overall....also the guys i listed have a history of defending their teammates against rough play , something neither zach eddy drew or david lee have a history of doing , the only guy on the knicks roster who is known for this is jerome james , but he cant get court time.
a guy like mike miller would surely help out more but he would cost more to aquire , if the grizzlies were having a fire a sale i would definitely be on line with this , but it appears unlikely , they should have their pick of suitors come offseason...but he can handle , shoot and score , he is a smart player who fits his game around others , he is perfect....outside of his defense which you already mentioned.
the reason i named the players i did , in addition to their skillset , is that they are for the most part easily aquired, the knicks may have to take a bad contract or something else undesirable , but their teams aren't really attached to keeping them if a deal comes along.
Personally, like what you mentioned earlier, I do not believe that we have primadonnas on the bench. A guy like David Lee would be and should be fine continuing to come off the bench. David Lee was clearly the better player between both he and Channing Frye and did not voice any sort of displeasure playing behind him. Frye may have been his friend but I doubt that that that sort of demand would effect their relationship. I know every situation is different but Jamal Crawford played behind Stephon Marbury for 2 seasons despite both being good friends and he voiced his displeasure without it necessarily affecting that relationship. So basically, I wouldn't mind having another version of David Lee given how high a level he plays and how well he meshes with Curry. The leadership and enforcer type could be found at another position or even off the bench. You did mention bringing in an Artest like player.
It definately would be nice to get the Florida connection going between both Miller and Lee. I think the possibility of a reunion could be a reality considering for what little they were about to take in return for him. If I recall correctly the Grizzlies had a deal with the Heat for an expiring contract before Miami backed out of the deal. The Knicks definately could do the same and offer up a young guy like Wilson Chandler who might not be a player the Grizzlies would use but could be put an asset for another deal.
P.S., I haven't really taken a good look at Mikael Pietrus. All I've really noticed is that he has an ability to hit a jumper consistently and is extremely athletic and utilizes it well enough on the defensive end. Is there anything more beyond this?
I believe an even better model to use would be the Celtics model who were in a very similar situation to us talent-wise and financially. Alot of people tend to criticize the decisions Isiah has made so far as team president but he has done things that Scott Layden could not do, acquire assets. I think that now that we have those assets, we should look to parlay them into players whose game fit what we hope to do in the future. We make a couple hits talent wise in some of these trades but better talent does not always equate to more wins. I think if Isiah starts focusing on getting these kinds of players, we'd be in a great situation in the next couple years especially with that lottery pick we're expecting this year.
I cant buy this Celtics thing because they had one Super-Star Player (Paul Pierce) on the team that let the organization "BIG-DUMMY Danny Ainge" know about each cancer player he added to the roster since Liquor Store Baker.
I cant buy the Scott Layden issue either, Scott Layden left alot of decent asset players that was working with Coach Chaney, plus five ending contract players that season.
It was Layden Players that took Isiah Thomas to his only Knick Postseason.
If one hav'nt learned anything about Isiah Thomas as a player, coach, and Owner, and G.M. Performances, then the Anucha Trial should've showed everyone that Isiah have poor relations with Player, Personal, and Friends through the participation of Marbury performance this season.
(maybe)This is too much to read but it gives a Knick-Fan the analysis of Zeke and the Knick Players.
The Knicks TRIO Lineup of "Nate, Balkman, and Lee" co-exist together outstandingly vs NBA oponents since early lastseason. Why have this Trio of players been seperated from playing together throughout this entire season?
Watching the Knicks 109-98 LOSS to the Hawks shows Isiah is not a NBA Coach to have for next season. Zeke shows no coaching strategy to build chemistry within these Knick players. He wants out and the players would like that too. There was no reason at all in the Hawks game that Coach Isiah Starting-5 Players should've been "Nate, Crawford, Balkman, Lee, and Zach".
If they would'nt have got it right in the first quarter I'm sure they would have in the third quarter vs the Hawks Roster.
The playingtime given to the "Tazman Balkman" whom have the Raw talent of becomming a decent Point-Foward in the league is being showcase by Zeke for trading him on draft night or during the offseason (to go in a trade for Marbury ending season contract).
The majority of decent NBA teams have and build their team around three or four co-existing players on the team so the rest of the players on the roster could follow insuit to the Plan & Strategy given to these three or four players co-existing style. However....
On this Knick Team if three or four players have great chemistry together and they are not apart of Isiah Thomas Pet Players they will not get playingtime together no matter how well they play together.
The Knicks best four players that co-existed well on the court using a help-defense and help-offense through hustling effort were lastseason 2nd Unit of players "PG-Nate, SG-Crawford, SF-Balkman, PF-Lee,".
The Knicks Coach and coaching-staff went and stripped the best co-existing four-man lineup up (Lastseason) to give all of Crawford & Lee playingtime to helping the Poor co-existing Performance of "Marbury, Jefferies, and Curry" Trio lineup that needed so much help in every area of Team-Offense and Team-Defense.
And Knick-Fans wondered WHY Lee & Crawford accidently caught season injuries at the beginning of midseason last year. Let's just say they did not agree with the complete benching of Nate & Balkman before their injuries.
What did Isiah Thomas do so that SG-Crawford & PF-Lee dont catch another so-call accident season injury in the 2007-8 season? which they probably got the idea from SF-Q.Richardson early season injury (when Zeke first added Jefferies into the rotation for 30 mpg).
Zeke drafted SF-Wilson Chandler, and traded for SG-Fred Jones & PF-Zach Randolph. Zeke actions in the 2007 offseason was not to build and Train the players he had from lastseason during the offseason at a gym, but to replace certain players at the SG, SF, and PF whom came down with season injuries but stated that they would be well if the Knicks made the playoffs. LOL!
I guess Zeke had to prove to his "REBELLING" players that he was the BOSS by his offseason transactions of getting replacements.
Recall Francis dissaperance for two months last season.
the long losing-streak after Isiah was given an extension on his contract. Plus the comments that Jalen Rose and Mo Taylor made before the BUY-OUT to shut them up about the Knick Organization while under investigation for the FIRING of Coach Larry Brown without pay.
I actually feel sorry for the Player that the Knicks draft in their early 2008 LOTTERY pick if Isiah and alot of his selfish players are here next season...
I cant buy this Celtics thing because they had one Super-Star Player (Paul Pierce) on the team that let the organization "BIG-DUMMY Danny Ainge" know about each cancer player he added to the roster since Liquor Store Baker.
I cant buy the Scott Layden issue either, Scott Layden left alot of decent asset players that was working with Coach Chaney, plus five ending contract players that season.
It was Layden Players that took Isiah Thomas to his only Knick Postseason.
If one hav'nt learned anything about Isiah Thomas as a player, coach, and Owner, and G.M. Performances, then the Anucha Trial should've showed everyone that Isiah have poor relations with Player, Personal, and Friends through the participation of Marbury performance this season.
I personally can't buy Paul Pierce being a "superstar." When you look at players in the discussion of superstar, names like Kobe Bryant and LeBron James have to be included and I just do not see Pierce being in that sort of discussion. Both Kobe and LeBron (especially Kobe) have managed to win with just as much if not less talent than Pierce in recent years. I think that alone should suggest that Pierce is a hell of a player but not a superstar. This would suggest that the Celtics situation was not very much different, in this sense, than the Knicks.
As for those "cancers" your referring to, the managed to land both Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. They must have had some value behind them in order to be dealt for those names.
I'm definately not buying Scott Layden leaving alot of "assets" after his firing. Expiring contracts can't do very much of anything for you if all that's left behind are aging back-up caliber veterans with long term contracts. You could always let those contracts expire but that would have done little to nothing for a Knick team that would have still be left far above the cap and unable to make any major moves financially for a key player. I think your also off base concerning the Layden players comment and them helping Isiah make the playoffs his first year here. If you recall correctly, Stephon Marbury, Tim Thomas, Nazr Mohammad, Vin Baker Moochie Norris, Anfernee Hardaway, Bruno Sundov, Cezary Trybanski and DeMarr Johnson were on that team. That's a total of 8 players out of a roster of 15; 5 of those players represented our 8 man rotation during those playoffs. I think it is pretty apparent who was really responsible for us being in the playoffs that year.
My views of the knicks as of now.
