I got to agree with both DaGrinch and Gotham on this one. I personally feel like everyone is overreacting a little bit and a bit forgetful of the situation Isiah walked into before coming here. We had a slew of long term contracts assigned to past their prime veterans that had little trade value. In the time he has been here, he has brought in TALENT which is really the main agenda as a GM. Unfortunately, he never executed or appeared to have a plan to execute the 2nd phase of retooling the team; bringing in players that fit the team's identity rather than just pure talent.
As a coach, he has sucked and should not be allowed to be one as a HEAD COACH again. As an executive, he has shown an ability to find talent in the draft no matter where he is selecting. That's a start and time spent being Walsh's understudy might give him greater insight into how to run the job from a strategic/financial standpoint. Let's face it, being an exec. in New York is no easy task especially given the situation he walked into. Besides, Walsh is 67 years old and can not handle all the responsibilities by himself and certainly will not be around for too long.
I dont think Isiah is a bad head coach. Not even he could coach this team and he was the one that put it together. The team has talent but it is a bad mesh. It's hard to coach a team that doesn't play hard every night which is the biggest problem. Also people seem to underrate Isiah's coaching ability, he has always done a good job developing young players. Look at the job he did with Jermaine O'Neal, Al Harrington, and Jamaal Tinsley. He also did a good job developing David Lee, Renaldo Balkman, and Nate Robinson.
I dont think Isiah is a bad head coach. Not even he could coach this team and he was the one that put it together. The team has talent but it is a bad mesh. It's hard to coach a team that doesn't play hard every night which is the biggest problem. Also people seem to underrate Isiah's coaching ability, he has always done a good job developing young players. Look at the job he did with Jermaine O'Neal, Al Harrington, and Jamaal Tinsley. He also did a good job developing David Lee, Renaldo Balkman, and Nate Robinson.
On my end, I'm not doubting Isiah's ability to develop talent. He might be decent at that and if he's not responsible, at least he has the guys around him that seem to know how to (Mark Aguirre, George Glymph, etc). I personally believe where Isiah is weak when it comes on the X's and O's side of basketball; organizing and directly plays. I haven't seen very much of that since Isiah's been a coach which is why we've been so poor at executing on the offensive end and have actually gotten worse since last year. I think that effectively renders him to being an assistant coach at this point, which isn't a bad thing. Isiah is still young in terms of being an executive and could benefit from learning through wiser individuals. This is why I think we should look to get him behind Walsh and then low ball the **** out of him when it comes time to re-up his contract.
On my end, I'm not doubting Isiah's ability to develop talent. He might be decent at that and if he's not responsible, at least he has the guys around him that seem to know how to (Mark Aguirre, George Glymph, etc). I personally believe where Isiah is weak when it comes on the X's and O's side of basketball; organizing and directly plays. I haven't seen very much of that since Isiah's been a coach which is why we've been so poor at executing on the offensive end and have actually gotten worse since last year. I think that effectively renders him to being an assistant coach at this point, which isn't a bad thing. Isiah is still young in terms of being an executive and could benefit from learning through wiser individuals. This is why I think we should look to get him behind Walsh and then low ball the **** out of him when it comes time to re-up his contract.
i actually thought is major failings were his ego that he ought he could instil toughness from the sidelines...and that he couldnt mesh eddy and zach X&O's wise.
the previous season he did fine.
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"The country is full of good coaches. What it takes to win is a bunch of interested players."-Don Coryell, ex-San Diego Chargers Coach
The guy has been absolutely horrible at coaching. Larry Brown won more games than we have now and he didn't have the talent that is here now. You people crucified him. Thomas is not a good coach by any stretch. As far as his judge of ability and talent, and his GM prowess.....please. There are few moves he made that are real pleasant surprises. Frye over Bynum? Lee I like. Nate over Jack, Kleiza, Ewing, Turiaf, Ellis, Blatche, and Gelebale? Take a look. He blew the Balkman/Collins draft as well. Now we can talk about his trades. The Curry trade? Gave WAY too much. Randolph? That may end up a real killer. FA signings? Gave up far too much money for the players he signed. The man is way overrated in every capacity. He may have a great Bball mind but it's overshadowed by all his failings.
With regards to where we are now as compared to where we were when he got here? Let's see...we have had 3 years of 20+ wins with no top picks to show for it. We have perhaps more talent, but it doesn't mesh and we can't trade it for good talent that does. We still are cap bound and only by finding a trading partner to take Randolph for shorter contracts will be be able to do anything by '09. We are still a crappy team....crappier than we were, even. We still have no definite future as far as young guys (sans Lee), and we have no cap flexibility. Tell me again how the franchise is better because of his time here?
i actually thought is major failings were his ego that he ought he could instil toughness from the sidelines...and that he couldnt mesh eddy and zach X&O's wise.
the previous season he did fine.
The previous season he did fine but I think a large reason behind that is his uncanny ability to rally a time and motivate them. I think a lot of times last year, we won off of heart by Knick players trying to save Isiah's job. I initially felt that our main problem last year was having a team too young to execute properly down the stretch. I'm starting to believe, after this season, that it's how the team is operated (or a lack thereof) has been part of the problem (including during the Larry Brown stint). Even though Marbury has made some block head comments in the past, he might have been onto something when he criticized Isiah for not having a system where every player has a position to be on the floor during plays. On a young team like this one, I think you need more structure than Isiah has provided but less rigid than what we saw with Larry Brown. Isiah would be perfect for a veteran team because those kind of teams know how to play the game and simply need motivation and inspiration; the Pistons would be a great fit.
The guy has been absolutely horrible at coaching. Larry Brown won more games than we have now and he didn't have the talent that is here now. You people crucified him. Thomas is not a good coach by any stretch. As far as his judge of ability and talent, and his GM prowess.....please. There are few moves he made that are real pleasant surprises. Frye over Bynum? Lee I like. Nate over Jack, Kleiza, Ewing, Turiaf, Ellis, Blatche, and Gelebale? Take a look. He blew the Balkman/Collins draft as well. Now we can talk about his trades. The Curry trade? Gave WAY too much. Randolph? That may end up a real killer. FA signings? Gave up far too much money for the players he signed. The man is way overrated in every capacity. He may have a great Bball mind but it's overshadowed by all his failings.
With regards to where we are now as compared to where we were when he got here? Let's see...we have had 3 years of 20+ wins with no top picks to show for it. We have perhaps more talent, but it doesn't mesh and we can't trade it for good talent that does. We still are cap bound and only by finding a trading partner to take Randolph for shorter contracts will be be able to do anything by '09. We are still a crappy team....crappier than we were, even. We still have no definite future as far as young guys (sans Lee), and we have no cap flexibility. Tell me again how the franchise is better because of his time here?
Good post Dog!
__________________ Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. PLEASE BEWARE THIS POSTER MAY GO ON THE DEEP END AT ANY GIVEN TIME.Use Caution!
The guy has been absolutely horrible at coaching. Larry Brown won more games than we have now and he didn't have the talent that is here now. You people crucified him. Thomas is not a good coach by any stretch. As far as his judge of ability and talent, and his GM prowess.....please. There are few moves he made that are real pleasant surprises. Frye over Bynum? Lee I like. Nate over Jack, Kleiza, Ewing, Turiaf, Ellis, Blatche, and Gelebale? Take a look. He blew the Balkman/Collins draft as well. Now we can talk about his trades. The Curry trade? Gave WAY too much. Randolph? That may end up a real killer. FA signings? Gave up far too much money for the players he signed. The man is way overrated in every capacity. He may have a great Bball mind but it's overshadowed by all his failings.
With regards to where we are now as compared to where we were when he got here? Let's see...we have had 3 years of 20+ wins with no top picks to show for it. We have perhaps more talent, but it doesn't mesh and we can't trade it for good talent that does. We still are cap bound and only by finding a trading partner to take Randolph for shorter contracts will be be able to do anything by '09. We are still a crappy team....crappier than we were, even. We still have no definite future as far as young guys (sans Lee), and we have no cap flexibility. Tell me again how the franchise is better because of his time here?
I think you clearly do not completely understand how well Isiah did in bringing in talent. Let's critique each one of the moves he made.
The first was Channing Frye over Andrew Bynum. In retrospect it's always easy to criticize individuals for these sort of moves but Isiah made the right decision. At the time, as he pointed out, the Knicks were in no sort of position to use assets to develop players (his rationale behind cutting Slavko Vranes). We still had a roster composed of veterans and still into the concept of "win now." Frye presented us with a 6-11 shot blocker at the 5 position which we desperately needed to upgrade. He could have stepped in and immediately help put us into the playoffs. That ambition changed when we realized that we could acquire a 3rd first round pick and Eddy Curry.
Everyone agreed with Isiah at the time and many (including probably yourself) was on the Frye bandwagon. In fact, many bashed Isiah for wanting to go after Charlie Villanova had he not been taken by the Raptors. I recall just how smug many Knick fans were about that with Raptor fans, thanking them for delivering Frye to us. Frye was just that good a prospect; even following the draft many felt there was a conspiracy because they thought that he was too good to go as low as he did and supposedly told Utah not to draft him after trading up to the 3 spot. Long story short, Bynum might have not been the Bynum he is now had he come to the Knicks considering the emmense pressure to win and the absence of Kareem Abdul-Jabber.
As for Nate, he's better than all the players you mentioned. The Blazers don't even want Jarret Jack anymore and neither did Atlanta when the Blazers were offering him up this offseason. Daniel Ewing is nothing more than a defensive stopper, Galebele can't even get playing time in Seattle and might not even be in the league in a couple years and Andray Blatche has shown nothing but promise. Ronny Turiaf is nothing more than a bigger, less talented David Lee and Monta Ellis might be the only guy that you might have an argument for. The thing is that at the time and even today, Ellis had serious health concerns which caused him to drop. He's shown he can still perform in spite of them but I don't think he's clearly better than Nate Robinson. If Nate got as much playing time and played in the same system, I bet he'd be having as much if not more than the impact Ellis has.
I think in retrospect the Eddy Curry trade is still a little even in my book. The players we gave up were all irrelevant. As for the draft picks, Tyrus Thomas is a bust waiting to happen in my book and I'd rather have Curry than Noah (or anyone else after) at this point because of the mismatches having a scoring center presents.
Zach Randolph was had for a nickel on the dollar. In spite of all the off the court issues, he's still a 20 and 10 big man that is just 26 years old. Some playoff aspiring team will take a chance on him, as have countless others on similar players. Chances are those returns will be much more valuable in the long run to us than Steve Francis or Channing Frye.
I think we need to stop worrying about talent at this point and trade for the unheralded role players that will help mix and match the pieces together. Look at how much of a difference that made for Toronto the year Colangelo was hired. We already have the pieces to be competitive in the Eastern Conference.
The guy has been absolutely horrible at coaching. Larry Brown won more games than we have now and he didn't have the talent that is here now. You people crucified him. Thomas is not a good coach by any stretch.
Has it occurred to you that we've been tanking from about February? Granted it's not huge accomplishment to post a better record than Larry Brown's 23 win season but I think its safe to say had we wanted that, we would have had that many wins by now. Where would that have left us though? Out of the playoffs with less ping pong balls on draft day. It's funny how people criticize Isiah for not doing things and when he does get around to doing them (building through the draft; getting and keeping high draft picks) he still gets criticized. The guy has made mistakes but that has been very easy to do in a city like New York and the horrendous situation he walked into. Like I said, he's below mediocre on the X's and O's end of basketball but is a great motivator and solid at rallying a team. On a veteran team like the Pistons where they already have an established culture for winning, he'd be ideal because motivation is the only thing that older teams sometimes face (before their games fall off).
Tanking since Feb? How were we doing before that? I always liked Bynum over Frye because of his ceiling. I also liked Frye when he was here...and still do. He played well under Brown. Glad you're so enamored with Nate, although I don't know why. Where is ANY sign of motivation? The players hate him and do not play for him...and that is obvious. Still waiting for ANY sign of X and O knowledge. I doubt that any veteran team would even respect him. As far as drafting Frye because of his shot-blocking...he was never really considered a shot-blocker. Using a supposition as to how Bynum may or may not have developed is not valid. He could have just as easily been better. You apparently think very highly of Nate but right now he is just a poor defensive player with inconsistent play and a spark off the bench. I'm not saying he is a poor judge of talent, just that he is not so great either. The Curry trade did not have to be Tyrus Thomas...it could have been Aldridge and Noah. Are you telling me you wouldn't trade Curry and Chandler for Aldridge and Noah? As I have said before...I don't want to compete in the East. I want to compete for a title. Tell me again which players we have that you can envision on a title contender
Donnie Walsh A Knick!!
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