NYKBaller

Marbury finally has someone to alley hoop too, also players can improve their jump shots. It just depends if TT has that drive.

I liked TnT after watching the bucks/nets playoff game. Liked what he was doing, also they said he was working with Bernard King in the offseason so theirs already a knick connection.

benfica

Well, there goes all the white and foreign players. I was surprised he didn't trade KVH sooner, I am sure he tried. Look at what Isiah did to a young promising player in Austin Croshere. If Larry Bird was on the Knicks team I doubt he would have played much, even traded quickly since he was not athletic enough. This "we want to be more athletic" is just saying, we need an all black team in NY. How is TT and Narz more athletic than KVH. KVH can get down the court as well as any big man in the league.

I am not shocked KVH was traded, he was playing well and NY was clicking chemistry wise. This was no time to change the chemistry of the team going into the second half of the season. This just shows that IT doesn't know how to run a team. People say that KVH had his best seasons with Marbury, but Marbury also has had is best games playing with KVH. Marbury will be so easy to defend now with no perimeter threat.

IT likes to take credit for developing O'neal, but look what did
to Al Harrington, bender, Austin Croshere, Jeff Foster, Jamaal Tinsley and he picks Fred Jones 14th overrall. No wonder Bird
fired him.

This trade will make the Knicks much worse. Now there is absolutely no chemistry on the team.

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Jmonty580

I think this trade was more of a " I dont want any of Layden's guys", than a racail issue. All you have to do is look at the stats and see that KVH is the better player, always has been and always will be. I just hope that Frank Williams, sweetney, harrington, deke and Anderson are some of the next victims because they were aquired under layden. If he could get rid of Allan Houston he would be gone too.

truth

I think you guys are missing the most important factor here..Isiah Thomas's ego and his belief that he can make underachivers realise their potential.

KVH is unqustionably a talented guy,but a player whose best days are behind him..He is not going to get better..

Tim Thomas is an underacheiver with tremendous potential..Michael Redd,his teamate says Tim Thomas can be as good as he wants to....Thats the issue...Will Tim Thomas put in the effort....

Isiah Thomas fully believes he can tap into a player and make him as good as he can be....Jermaine Oneal,came to Isiah,full of potential,and Isiah helped him develop that potetial...

Thats the HUGE difference between Thomas and Layden..Be it right or wrong,Isiah feels he can make a difference in a player acheiving greatness...Layden clearly does not have the ego or ability to do that.....

Only time will tell,but Tim Thomas is pretty good and potentially GREAT..KVH is pretty good,most of the time..Isiah knows this and is not in NY to keep his job,collect a paycheck,make the playoffs and get knocked off in the first round...He must take gambles now,thats why marbury is here,Tim Thomas is here and Vin baker may be here soon as well...

alphadog

Truth...most times I agree with you...but not on this one. KVH would have been a star on this team. The more they played, the better they(he) got. TT is MARGINALLY better as an athlete...KVH can run , jump, and finish with the best of them at 6'10. Plus, contrary to the above poster, he is a much better rebounder, shooter and scorer. Anyone that believes that players suddenly find a J after several years in the NBA are deluding themselves. TT is the kind of player that gets coachs and GMs fired. They look so great one time and then stink another. If TT starts and they get RW, where do the boards come from? Where do the long jumpers that open up the middle come from? Van Horn will be an all star long before TT gets a sniff of it. If you want an athletic big guy that doesn't play good D, at least get one with an offensive game and rebounds(see John Wallace). Please show me the last guy to make a major improvement after 6 or 7 yeras in the L...maybe I am missing someone but I think what you see is what you get after so much time.

arenas809

The racial implications you guys put on all this are just stupid...beyond stupid.

Newsflash, there's a white GM and white coach in Indiana and Croshere only plays 12.8 MPG...

Under Isiah he played 16.9 and 12.9 MPG...

I love when people play the race card, they really don't know what they're talking about, their argument holds no water and thus don't have a real valid point to stand on.

son of oakley

Plus any list of bball people Isiah respects has to include Laimbeer, coach Knight and coach Daley. He wanted Daley to coach this team. WTF, a black racist paying a cracker to be boss? No, it doesn't work like that.

truth

Hey alpha,
I like KVH but I have always felt he was wrong for this team..By this team,i mean with marbury,houston,Kt and Deke..This team needs a slasher (like spree),and i dont mean Shandon Anderson

I liked KVH when he was going to be paired with Dyss,an awesome low post presence...

When we got marbury,everything changed...Ward and Eisly as well as Dyss were gone and its clear I Thomas wants a more athletic dynamic team.With no post presense(hence vin baker) you have no chioce...

I dont consider KVH terribly athletic anymore..Somehwere along the way he lost his hops..He never used to get his shot blocked and now it seems every time he penetrates he gets rejected or gets stripped...

This team is potentially more balanced and from what I understand the trade was Doleac and KVH for Naz Mohammed and Tim Thomas...It was a package deal,al or none...

If Houston doesnt come back,we may regret this trade.I am assuming he will be OK...TT is a 6'10" small foward with a world of potential..He can create for himself and hes a slasher..marbury and Houston can stroke it,and KT is fine within 17 feet...

Isiah is easy to figure out...He likes untapped potential.His ego is big enough that he believes he can help Thomas be great.You are right..Its a gamble..But there were ALOT of nights KVH sat out the 4th quarter.....Superstars dont sit on the bench in the 4th quarter...

Knicksbiggestfan

Easy junior I was talking about the Bush diatribe, looking over it, the grammar might not be cogent but the context and the accusations are.


The racial implications might seem ridiculous to you and that's fine but, some people here have noticed a pattern since the moment he set foot in here.


People want to point out " hey he's not a racist he wanted daley or bill to coach" yeah maybe, but he also turned away fratello in lieu of Lenn friggin Wilkens


I see a bunch of threads where people here think we are some how better off defensively.


Wake up guys Van Horn is the better defender. How scary is that?



Other people point out the fact that H20 and Van Horn were similar in playing style.


What the hell? Two people who have great midrange games is somehow a burden to us. That's what you need to be a friggin zone, that's the whole dam point.


You need a guy who can penetrate ( Marbury) and wing players who can screen and roll, pick and pop, and hit the open J. Not slashers. For gods sake guys TIM THOMAS SHOOTS THE SAME AMOUNT OF 3's AS VH.


I think the only confusion going on here is about TT's game. You guys seem to think he is some Darius miles type when he is closer to Van Horn then you think.


It's a downgrade in talent. We would have had Nazir anyway. Use your noodle we got boned on this trade. Unless things click real well, steph will be smothered by the zone, and this team will look very different.

son of oakley

fan, you're right that TT does shoot a lot of three's, and his shooting percentages are damn close to VH, so why are you assuming we lost our ability to break the zone? He's as good at it as VH. At least he can pop or slash. Aside from losing 2 rebounds per game, which Nazr will probably make up for us, what the heck are we losing?

NYKBaller

I think TnT will do well here, maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm right. The Pistons will tell us tommorow...

nyksju

i dont think this trade does a lot. i think it slightly improves us. idk if i was isiah i prob would not have don it

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truth

"What the hell? Two people who have great midrange games is somehow a burden to us. That's what you need to be a friggin zone, that's the whole dam point. "

You are only telling half the story....Great midrange game,very poor taking it to the hole,and terrible passers...that will not beat a friggin zone....

The mavs dont beat zones because they are all shooters...Every player on that team can shoot,penetrate and pass..Go put 5 VASHON LENARDS and dell currys on the floor and see how ad you get spanked.....

All i know is Chaney beched KVH in the 4th quarter as did Lenny and that speaks volumes.....

Alot of guys second guessed the marbury trade,as did i to a certain degree...Ill give isiah the benefit of doubt until proven otherwuse...

How could we have gotten NAZ????he makes 5.5 million,doleac makes 1.5....

Racism???based on what?????????????????????????
lets break it down

black guys traded black guys recieved
Ward penny
Eisly norris
Dyss marbury
Spoon mohammed

white guys traded white guys recieved
vah horn trebanski
lampe
rights to vujanic (doesnt count)

so,Isiah traded away 4 black guys for four black guys..sounds reasonable,not very racist...he also traded 2 white guys for 1 white guy....not terribly racist.....So,please tell me,what has he done that would lead you to believe winning is not his sole motive...And keep in mind the Nba is probably 80% black,so every white guy traded you should get 4 blacks in return..i would say the numbers of the trades strongly indicate isiah is anything BUT racist....feel free to speculate otherwise,ill stick to the facts

Zuca

And now Isiah can run the last Knicks trade...

NY gets Patterson
Dal gets Shandon Anderson
Por gets Abdul-Wahad

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Rashidi

Great, just what we need, more turnovers.
Call me when we trade for Kenyon Martin.

Only depending on the matchups. There's an obvious disadvantage vs 3 guard alignments.

And please don't act like TT won't see any bench time in the 4th quarter.

Sorry, but you forgot Doleac. And Vujanic counts.

They traded 4 white guys for 1 white guy.

I don't think Isiah is racist, but I do believe he prefers athletic players over shooters. You can attribute this all the way back to his comments about Larry Bird. It's obvious that he's either unwilling to use these players, or that he doesn't know how. Croshere was very effective for Indiana, and then IT benched him. He was playing a lot more than 16 and 12 mpg before IT came along.

IT obviously prefers Moochie Norris > Milos Vujanic. Because Norris is athletic.

IT obviously prefers TT > KVH. Because TT is athletic.

IT obviously prefers Sheed > KT. Because I saw Sheed get an alley oop in his last game as a Blazer, and KT hardly ever dunks.

IT obviously prefers athleticism > chemistry.