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defense: 80s vs today

8K views 150 replies 28 participants last post by  RollWithEm 
#1 ·
was the overall defense of the nba stronger in the 80s (pick a year)?

were the wing defenders better in the 80s?
 
#127 ·
Re: Re: buduan,

Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!



If you watched like you claim you would know that Worthy played the PF position quite a bit. Especially with that trapping unit I posted. They had Green as the SF with that lineup.

Don't you remember Worthy guarding McHale in all those Finals? Isn't McHale a PF? One of the greatest if I remember correctly.
they also had scott guarding point guards most of the time

did that make him a point guard?

magic almost never guarded opposing point guards yet he is considered one of the best all time at that position

if the best you can do is one match-up when the majority of the time it didn't happen like that, you just lost this argument
 
#128 ·
Re: Re: Re: buduan,

Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


they also had scott guarding point guards most of the time

did that make him a point guard?

magic almost never guarded opposing point guards yet he is considered one of the best all time at that position

if the best you can do is one match-up when the majority of the time it didn't happen like that, you just lost this argument
Worthy did play the 4 at times and started at 4 at times too if I remember. That is what I think he meant and I agree. Worthy had the size and ability to play 4 that is what I think he was pointing out.
 
#129 ·
also the majority of the time

on the celtics side of things

mchale guarded small forwards and bird guarded power forwards when they were on the floor together

did this make bird a power forward and mchale a small forward?

other examples

when the lakers faced the bulls(starting in their finals meeting) pippen usually guarded magic and MJ stayed on worthy

by your logic buduan, with worthy being a power forward and air jordan guarding him, it now makes michael jordan a 4

ive seen dennis rodman guard shaq , and shaq guard rodman so by your logic either rodman is a center(which makes luc longley a forward) or shaq is a forward

matchups are one thing but when you use your eyes its another

ac green was the power forward he did the dirty work of setting picks and grabbing the rebounds

worthy stayed out on the perimeter (although he did post up here and there throughout a game)

and though worthy and green were about the same size it was obvious that both had very different roles on the team and because they were about the same size it allowed for flexibilty in certain matchups but worthy was the small forward
 
#130 ·
Re: Re: Re: Re: buduan,

Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!


Worthy did play the 4 at times and started at 4 at times too if I remember. That is what I think he meant and I agree. Worthy had the size and ability to play 4 that is what I think he was pointing out.
bird started at the 4 for most of his career but i think most people agree he was a small forward
 
#131 ·
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: buduan,

Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


bird started at the 4 for most of his career but i think most people agree he was a small forward
Point is that Worthy played 4 at times. I don't think he meant that Worthy was a 4. Worthy was often used as a 4 during trap and defensive purposes situations he was right...I saw it countless times. I don't think anybody meant that Worthy was officially a 4. Same thing as is Ben Wallace really a 5 and Duncan is a true 5 not a 4.
 
#132 ·
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: buduan,

Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!


Point is that Worthy played 4 at times. I don't think he meant that Worthy was a 4. Worthy was often used as a 4 during trap and defensive purposes situations he was right...I saw it countless times. I don't think anybody meant that Worthy was officially a 4. Same thing as is Ben Wallace really a 5 and Duncan is a true 5 not a 4.
bballdoctor i get what you are saying but what buduan said to start all this is totally different

A.C. Green, Mychal Thompson, and James Worthy dominated the PF spot in the latter half of the 80's. Rambis started I think one year. He was a heck of a rebounder and defender. Unlike the foul a minute Madsen. The guy is out of control most of the time.-buduan

there was nothing about being a part timer(and spending most of the time in another positionit was about how the line-up with worthy at the 4 dominated )) and the statement was incredibly untrue

the bulls had a great trap in the early 90s in which horace grant played a guard role by his duties in the trap in the backcourt

that didn't make grant a guard because in the halfcourt game just like worthy he went back to his normal role

and though worthy and green were about the same size it was obvious that both had very different roles on the team and because they were about the same size it allowed for flexibilty in certain matchups but worthy was the small forward-this is me earlier

i acknowledged that on occasion they switched up ..but you are what you are, ac green wasn't about to be trying to take players off the dribble while worthy played on the weakside trying to garner rebounds off misses and thats why worthy is a 3 and green is a 4 ...its because of their offensive purpose on the floor and that never changed not while they were trapping not while they were playing the clippers or celtics or whomever
 
#133 ·
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: buduan,

Originally posted by <b>happygrinch</b>!


bballdoctor i get what you are saying but what buduan said to start all this is totally different

A.C. Green, Mychal Thompson, and James Worthy dominated the PF spot in the latter half of the 80's. Rambis started I think one year. He was a heck of a rebounder and defender. Unlike the foul a minute Madsen. The guy is out of control most of the time.-buduan

there was nothing about being a part timer(and spending most of the time in another positionit was about how the line-up with worthy at the 4 dominated )) and the statement was incredibly untrue

the bulls had a great trap in the early 90s in which horace grant played a guard role by his duties in the trap in the backcourt

that didn't make grant a guard because in the halfcourt game just like worthy he went back to his normal role

and though worthy and green were about the same size it was obvious that both had very different roles on the team and because they were about the same size it allowed for flexibilty in certain matchups but worthy was the small forward-this is me earlier

i acknowledged that on occasion they switched up ..but you are what you are, ac green wasn't about to be trying to take players off the dribble while worthy played on the weakside trying to garner rebounds off misses and thats why worthy is a 3 and green is a 4 ...its because of their offensive purpose on the floor and that never changed not while they were trapping not while they were playing the clippers or celtics or whomever
Ok I see.

A.C. Green, Mychal Thompson, and James Worthy dominated the PF spot in the latter half of the 80's< This is wrong.

Barkley, Malone, and McHale were the most dominating 4s in the latter half of the 80s.
 
#136 ·
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: buduan,

Originally posted by <b>Bball_Doctor</b>!


Ok I see.

A.C. Green, Mychal Thompson, and James Worthy dominated the PF spot in the latter half of the 80's< This is wrong.

Barkley, Malone, and McHale were the most dominating 4s in the latter half of the 80s.

I meant they dominated the PF position on the Lakers. He was trying to say that Rambis was their 4. Not true. Once Green joined the team Rambis rarely played. Rambis played a whopping 800+ minutes in 1988 and wasn't even on the team in 1989.

So yes, Green, Worthy, and Thompson played the position primarily. Green was considered the best defending big man. He covered alot of the quicker SF's so that Worthy and Magic weren't run down covering guys like Nique. Worthy played the 4 more often than you would like to admit happygrinch.

Since you claim you watched the Lakers in the 80's, who guarded McHale the majority of the time in those classic series?

The answer is Worthy and Thompson. Who did McHale guard? Worthy.
 
#138 ·
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: buduan,

Originally posted by <b>buduan</b>!



I meant they dominated the PF position on the Lakers. He was trying to say that Rambis was their 4. Not true. Once Green joined the team Rambis rarely played. Rambis played a whopping 800+ minutes in 1988 and wasn't even on the team in 1989.

So yes, Green, Worthy, and Thompson played the position primarily. Green was considered the best defending big man. He covered alot of the quicker SF's so that Worthy and Magic weren't run down covering guys like Nique. Worthy played the 4 more often than you would like to admit happygrinch.

Since you claim you watched the Lakers in the 80's, who guarded McHale the majority of the time in those classic series?

The answer is Worthy and Thompson. Who did McHale guard? Worthy.
mchale guarded worthy for the same reason that green was often put on the other team's best frontcourt scorer , to save bird's energy

but i'm almost positive the only time in the late 80's worthy switched off the human highlight film was in the all-star game that would have meant guarding kevin willis not exactly a walk in the park for a player pyhsically

and skywalker what you last said is what i've felt all along but conversations often sway from topics
 
#141 ·
Rereading this thread was fun. I miss mook, skywalker, and bball doctor. I had some good arguments with those guys once upon a time.
 
#142 ·
Wow. The basketball fans once had a joek...
 
#149 ·
It amazes me that people still think of "mid-range jumpers" as a sort of arcane skill. It's just shooting. But with any jumper the problem is getting separation to shoot them, which is a lot more difficult for perimeter players than big men. This is why so many big men shoot them well (because defenses want a possession to end with a Brandon Bass or Glen Davis long two) and why so many guards try to shoot everything from behind the arc or within ten feet.
 
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