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James Harden TRADED to Rockets

38K views 694 replies 62 participants last post by  kbdullah 
#1 ·
James Harden turned down a four-year, $52 million contract extension offer from the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Harden is seeking a maximum-level deal worth $60 million over four years.

The Thunder have until Wednesday to sign Harden to a contract extension or allow him the opportunity to become a restricted free agent on July 1.

Via Adrian Wojnarowski/Yahoo! Sports
 
#437 ·
They're both from Charlotte and I stopped reading after points.
 
#446 ·
I remember last year someone in there said "I would trade Haslem (or Anthony?) and Miller for Nene" and I asked "what if they made you throw in Pittman?"

His response was something along the lines of, "well, it would suck to lose him... but we might never develop him further" or something. This was before Nene got hurt mind you.
 
#448 ·
That's why the majority of those guys stick to the Heat forum and refuse to come out.

Its always fun to go in there and stumble upon someone calling Norris Cole a promising young PG, or Anthony is some sort of premier defensive center.


Who did they draft this year? If they had a draft pick I bet whoever they picked was the steal of the draft and will probably be a superstar.
 
#451 ·
Jefferson is what he is, a competent third option who could start on a champion if the other big is good at protecting the rim. However, there was a time before the C's won the title where people were up in arms about mortgaging the future and I remember you presenting him as a fraudulent stat-padder who couldn't contribute to a winning team. You weren't wrong about not being able to build a contender around Jefferson, but for a while went too far in the other direction. It's similar to how Perkins went from being a good defensive backstop to an overpaid bum when posters (wrongly) thought that trading him away cost Boston the title in 2011.
 
#452 ·
I didn't say he was "an overpaid bum". I said "Boston couldn't afford to extend him for cap reasons and if he hit free agency they would be locked into a Rondo/Perkins squad going forward." That was a losing hand so I have no regrets for Boston trading out of it. And not having Perkins sitting on the bench cheering certainly didn't cost Boston a title. Age/injuries did just fine for that.

He is playing like shit these days, but that's because knee injuries have sapped him of what quickness he had. He's still useful in the same way Jason Collins is, but not at the sort of money that OKC is paying him. And Jefferson absolutely was a defenseless stat padder in Boston & Minnesota, but since last season (not so coincidentally when Utah suddenly had other options at the 4/5) he's begun to not be a shitty defender, and accepted that he can't be the focal point of a team's offense.
 
#453 ·
There wasn't anything for Jefferson to do in Boston or Minnesota but get stats, you know as well as I do that those teams were guaranteed to be awful no matter what Jefferson did. It was always obvious that he would be a valuable starter if paired with the right personnel. It's like Kevin Martin doing the same things now he did in Sacramento and Houston.

As far as Perkins goes, all he was (and still is) ever good at was post defense, and the knee injuries haven't robbed him of his ability to do that. OKC decided to hold onto him and trade away Harden largely because their primary in-conference challenger and one of the popular dark horses both feature two high-quality post scorers in their lineup.

As far as the 2011 Celtics go, Ainge letting Tony Allen walk over a third year on his contract(a decision that he doesn't catch enough heat for, btw) and Shaq's calf are what killed their title chances. If Tony Allen was around to keep Marquis Daniels' neck injury from setting off a panic, and Shaq and Perkins were splitting the time at center, the C's could have gotten past the Heat.
 
#456 ·
There wasn't anything for Jefferson to do in Boston or Minnesota but get stats, you know as well as I do that those teams were guaranteed to be awful no matter what Jefferson did. It was always obvious that he would be a valuable starter if paired with the right personnel. It's like Kevin Martin doing the same things now he did in Sacramento and Houston.
Yes, but he wasn't trying to win games, he demanded to be the focal point on offense, devoured large sections of the shot clock, while not playing any defense to compensate. He made them less efficient on both ends of the floor, but didn't care because he was posting his 20/10, which was all that mattered to him. Building a contender around a player like that was nigh on impossible, which is what I said. So when you have the chance to deal someone like that for a Garnett, you do it and don't think twice.

As far as Perkins goes, all he was (and still is) ever good at was post defense, and the knee injuries haven't robbed him of his ability to do that. OKC decided to hold onto him and trade away Harden largely because their primary in-conference challenger and one of the popular dark horses both feature two high-quality post scorers in their lineup.

As far as the 2011 Celtics go, Ainge letting Tony Allen walk over a third year on his contract(a decision that he doesn't catch enough heat for, btw) and Shaq's calf are what killed their title chances. If Tony Allen was around to keep Marquis Daniels' neck injury from setting off a panic, and Shaq and Perkins were splitting the time at center, the C's could have gotten past the Heat.
And at the time of the 2011 trade, both Shaq & Perkins were injured, and Perkins wasn't coming back (after 2011) because Boston wasn't (wisely) going to pay him market value. People keep glossing over that fact, but the reality is that they were missing all three centers at the time of the trade. Krstic really was as big a part of the deal as cashing in Perkins for useful future pieces. I said it at the time, I wish they could have got Harden in that deal, no matter what it took. Unfortunately the Thunder didn't budge on that. But the trade didn't change Boston's title chances, because they weren't the same team after losing Shaq.
 
#461 ·
They're stuck with $20-$23 million a year tied up in Green and Rondo, which isn't any better, and Green's had less of an impact than Perkins has. It was clear as soon as the trade was made it was a push financially for Boston, not one that freed up a ton of flexibility, despite your insistence that Green would never get a substantial contract extension. Hell, back in April of 2011 I posted this, and it still sums up how I feel regarding this argument:

The issue I have with that line of thought is that Krstic and Green are both in the last years of their respective deals. Even if you assume that Krstic is a rental and won't return, Jeff Green needs to get paid, and won't get much less than what Perk got. I really, really believe it's as simple as Ainge expecting that Shaq would get healthy.
 
#462 ·
Yes, but you're forgetting that with Perkins they would have $21 million tied up in the C position, with less PF depth and no backup for Pierce. Garnett just can't be the primary helpside defender anymore, it's part of being 37. Hence my comment that if they committed to Perkins they'd need Garnett to walk and Pierce to retire so that they'd have cap space to add something better than Brandon Bass as their "third star".

Also, I'm not quite certain where the Green thing is coming from, I always said that he was going to end up being an over-MLE player. Chicago just paid similar money to Taj Gibson, a backup PF that isn't much of a center and overmatched against starting PFs. My hope then was that he'd play well enough for Boston to get something out of a sign & trade. Only as it turned out he had a bad ticker which killed that hope.
 
#464 ·
Also, I'm not quite certain where the Green thing is coming from, I always said that he was going to end up being an over-MLE player. Chicago just paid similar money to Taj Gibson, a backup PF that isn't much of a center and overmatched against starting PFs. My hope then was that he'd play well enough for Boston to get something out of a sign & trade. Only as it turned out he had a bad ticker which killed that hope.
http://www.basketballforum.com/nba-forum/456338-revisited-perkins-green.html

I doubt that Green gets $7-$8 million/year. He's not a very good starting 4, and more of a roleplayer at the 3. Yeah, Charlie Eyebrows got the big bucks, but when you look at the teams with money to spend, most of them have bigger needs than swing forward. I expect that Green's next deal will look a lot more like Perkins' last one than his current one.

One, who the hell is going to give a swing forward $8 million per? Do you really see any teams out there that desperate for a sixth man that they're willing to commit to double-MLE (in all likelihood) money to one? I sure as hell don't. Especially given the other forwards on the market, many of whom would be cheaper than that.

Agree with each other? There's zero chance in Passaic, New Jersey that Green gets Perkins' money.
 
#463 ·
Depth at the four wouldn't have been much different - there isn't much of a difference between (in no particular order) Bass/Sullinger/Green and Bass/Sullinger/KG-with-a-center. Depth behind Pierce wouldn't have been that much different - Green was ineffective in 2011, missed all of last year, and has been ineffective to start off this year. They wouldn't have needed anyone to walk or retire, because Green never created cap space to bring anybody in to start with. They'd have the same roster they have now, except with Perkins replacing Darko(who just left anyway) and someone like Sam Young instead of Green.
 
#465 ·
It's not that Green created cap space, it's that Perkins would have tied it all up in one spot. Garnett just can't play the PF anymore and Perkins sure as heck can't. Then you need to find replacements for Green, Allen, and Terry when you have the ability to, at most, bring in two guys before having to turn around and sign vet minimum guys to round out the roster.

It was a tough spot, this is why they ended up paying that 25% premium on Green & Bass last summer. Both guys had Boston over a barrel and their agents knew it and exploited it (bound to happen in Green's case with Falk as agent). Had Green not had the heart condition it wouldn't have been an issue as they'd've dealt him last year as an expiring deal (that was the reason that they initially inked him to that 1/$9 million deal, to buy out his objections to being traded as a fifth year player). Unfortunately the new CBA prevented them from using Green in a sign & trade this past summer (because you can only sign & trade guys that were on your roster the previous year per the new CBA), so their options were literally Green/Bass or scrap heap vet min players.

This was part of my Murphy's Law observation above about the trade, because every possible thing that could go wrong with the trade did. Green had a heart problem, Dell Demps attempted to jump start the Lakers' rebuilding program, which led to the NBA forcing Paul into the Clippers instead (when Boston's offer for CP3 turned out to have been, far and away the best one), destroying the value of the Clipper's draft pick which they'd intended as a trade asset to help them reload (and so rather than packaging a $9 million expiring deal and a low lottery pick for a roster upgrade they got Fab Melo). Then the new CBA prevented them from trading Green. But all told it's still a better spot to be in than the alternative.
 
#474 ·
So you're just done talking now eh EH?

Its weird, because just a month ago you proclaimed from the roof tops that when it comes to admitting you're wrong, you're the guy.


Take this time to sit back, think, and actually become a better poster. You go around the forum picking fights, and then just quitting threads when you're wrong (if you can't derail them).


Get better at posting. I'll say again, you're a sad old man. If I don't make this post you're sitting back and waiting for a few bad Martin games, or better yet crossing your fingers he gets injured and then popping back up.



You're a bad poster. One of the worst on the site. I want you to know that.


Oh, by the way, another solid third option role from Martin again tonight. 20 points on 60% shooting. Where is this ball hog, black hole, pass the ball into the stands Martin you spoke of? Or better question, do you ever have any idea of what you're talking about?
 
#478 ·
So you're just done talking now eh EH?
Let's see, Kevin Martin is a worse defender than Harden, check. Kevin Martin can really only do one thing, check. Martin can't provide the Thunder with the sort of playmaking ability that they need late in close games, check. And Kevin Martin has an injury history larger than R-Star's inferiority complex. Check (approximately 75% of his teams' games played from his second year forward).

Nope, I think that with Martin I have it pegged. Of course, as a Rockets fan I've had to put up with him for a while, and I'm glad he's gone. But, as I said way back when, as long as OKC is moving him to improve their club, the trade will work out for them. It was a hairy chested thunderer that came clomping into the thread after to declare Martin one of the best players in the NBA and a veritable iron man. While tacitly admitting that Martin's as fragile as his own erections by declaring Martin's ability to stay healthy for ten games a triumph.
 
#486 ·
Some quotes from ESPN after the first quarter of the season is done.

Danny Chau, Hardwood Paroxysm: Thunder. There aren't enough superlatives to convey how good OKC has been on offense, thanks to improved ball movement and the addition of Kevin Martin, who has significantly bolstered their numbers from behind the 3-point line. They have the best record in the league and the longest winning streak. I think there are a few clues as to why.

James Herbert, HoopSpeak: Oklahoma City Thunder. Who thought their offense would become this much more deadly with Kevin Martin taking James Harden's minutes? Martin has scored as efficiently as expected, and it has been a pleasure to watch Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook make up for the loss of Harden's playmaking.

Nubyjas Wilborn, Hawks Hoop: Thunder. Whoever thought these boys were going to fall off without James Harden must have forgotten how amazingly brilliant of a player Kevin Durant is. Kevin Martin has filled in rather nicely, Russell Westbrook is balling out of control and Serge Ibaka is patrolling the paint with Navy SEAL-like intensity. This team seems to have learned from its loss to Miami and wants to win it all.


Averaging 16ppg on .464 shooting thus far and playing every game. Not the black hole chucker who should have been injured by now like many labeled him in this thread.


It's only one quarter through the season thus far, but can one or two posters please at least acknowledge that he's filling in Hardens role amazingly and hasn't underperformed like they said he would?

Why are so many posters on here afraid to ever admit to being wrong? Yes, I'm talking to you EH.
 
#489 ·
Kevin Martin has been injured just as much as Bynum, so I guess I'm a bit surprised R-Star doesn't consider him as injury prone. Martin will get hurt and miss his annual 20 games. There's still plenty of time left.
 
#490 ·
And if he doesn't, are you going to come back to the thread?


When I used to criticize Bynum, I also came back to the Lakers forum and wrote that he was proving me wrong when he stayed relatively healthy and was putting up the best big man numbers in the league outside of Howard.

I have no issue with admitting when I'm wrong.

Martin used to play a ton of minutes, take a ton more shots, and get a lot more defensive attention. To me its not crazy to think he fares a lot less chance of getting injured now that he's the third scoring option on a very talented team.
 
#491 ·
Harden with another lights out spectacle. 5 for 20 today.

Where is this effective scorer everyone told me about? This player who shot nearly 50% a game? Where is he? Because Harden is shooting a 43.8%
Where is this amazing passer? Where is the player some called "The real playmaker on the Thunder? Where is he? Because Harden is only averaging 5apg and leading the league in turnovers.

And where is Kevin Martin the chucker? The guy who could never fill Hardens spot on the Thunder and would take the team out of games with his chucking? Where is he?
Oh, he probably isn't still playing, because I had multiple guarantees he'd be injured by now. Nope. Still there. Still playing and filling Hardens role just fine.


You know, I pointed all these things out months ago and was told I don't watch basketball by a few posters. I'm not always right, but when I'm wrong, I own up to it. I'm still waiting for anyone, anyone who posted in this thread against me and others to finally admit that at least up until this point, they were clearly wrong about this trade.


Anyone?
 
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