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More BCS realignment

143K views 1K replies 144 participants last post by  Medford 
#1 ·
It's being reported all over that the Big Ten is in the process of inviting Rutgers and the University of Maryland into the conference.

The invites could take place as early as Monday.

Speculation from there includes the idea that the ACC would invite UConn to take the place of UM.

Needless to say, that may be all she wrote for the Big East.
 
#1,005 ·
As I was saying...

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/1768543?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Michigan%20State%20Spartans|s

USA TODAY Sports reported Thursday that the Big East's seven Catholic schools plan to leave the league. If they choose to add three or five members and form either a 10- or 12-team league, they could consider wooing Butler. SI.com reported Thursday afternoon that Butler would be a target for a 12-team league.

Stevens himself first heard about the Big East shakeup when a reporter sent him a story on it.

"It was news to me," Stevens told USA TODAY Sports. "I don't know what all the discussion is. Obviously, when people start throwing that stuff out, there's probably something behind the fact that those seven schools are at least in discussion. But I have no idea how it affects Butler. From my standpoint and my seat, I'm a lot more focused on (playing) Indiana this weekend. That's enough for me."
"We didn't sit around thinking, 'We've got to leave' the last league we were in," Collier said Thursday afternoon. "We're watching everything like everybody else.

"I couldn't speculate on what may happen or anything. We just want to do the best thing for our university, our student-athletes, for Butler. Right now, it's the A-10. We're excited about being here and think we've got a good team."
 
#1,007 ·
I find all this Catholic re-alignment discussing void of religion. Suddenly St Joe's and LaSalle are not worthy of being in a Catholic conference being built through the poaching from its current conference by a group dislodging from its? Where is the loyalty? Dump on their facilities all you want but in the spirit of establishing a Catholic league on the basis being discussed I find it disheartening for certain Catholic schools as between the two conferences being labeled un-worthy. I also doubt the president's will agree to label such schools as such and therefore believe if the direction is for a Catholic Conference then all A-10 Catholic schools will have to be invited, warts and all.
 
#1,008 ·
I find all this Catholic re-alignment discussing void of religion. Suddenly St Joe's and LaSalle are not worthy of being in a Catholic conference being built through the poaching from its current conference by a group dislodging from its? Where is the loyalty? Dump on their facilities all you want but in the spirit of establishing a Catholic league on the basis being discussed I find it disheartening for certain Catholic schools as between the two conferences being labeled un-worthy. I also doubt the president's will agree to label such school as such and therefore believe if the direction is for a Catholic Conference then all A-10 Catholic school will have to be invited, warts and all.
That's just not reality. Yes, the Big East 7 are all Catholic institutions, but it's not their Catholicism that's driving this discussion. It's being driven by the desire to create the best (and therefore most lucrative) basketball conference, consisting of schools who have the facilities, market, fanbase and commitment to basketball excellence without the interference of annoying football schools. That's why Butler is apparently right near the top of the list of targets.
 
#1,020 ·
Interesting.

At Creighton, all questions about realignment, whether directed at coaches or even our athletic director, are being referred directly to our president, Fr. Timothy Lannon. His only comment on the record so far has been a "no comment."

When discussion about a potential move to the A10 was bandied about a year ago, our AD had free reign to comment on the issue and went on every single radio show in town to dispute the claim.

Read into that what you will.
 
#1,014 ·
^Yea, I probably can't follow your logic because you go from Myles Brand to Mark Cuban to attempted "zing's" towards Xavier about VCU making a Final 4 to people with power not being smart... all in a thread about conference realignment. I see half your post was deleted.. but wow. The original was a real treat.
 
#1,017 ·
Yeah, I hacked that post because once you mentioned the tweet, I kinda felt like an ass. I thought you had read the link to the MJS story because I posted it (around post #940-970 somewhere).

I really need to chop down my posts from long rants, which get misconstrued due to skimming and stick with one-line smart-ass jabs.

Goodnight, XH!
 
#1,031 ·
I just don't see a lot of good options to fill that geographic gap, and I don't think an A10 losing 3 or more key members is attractive enough to pry Creighton from the MVC. We're out of good Ohio schools. Cleveland State has had some good teams recently, but that doesn't seem right at all. In Indiana, Evansville and Valpo? No thanks. Illinois and Iowa have Drake and Bradley, but both of them are inconsistent at best. All the best targets for A10 expansion seem to be on the east coast.
 
#1,042 ·
This made no sense to bring up while working off the assumption that SLU, Xavier and Butler (and maybe Dayton) would be gone. But if Saint Louis stays and Xavier/Butler leave; there IS one school who could work perfectly here:

Belmont.

Nashville, TN
NCAA bids in 5 of the last 7 years.
56-11 in MBB the last two seasons
Eight straight 19+ win seasons
(Division I opponents only, record on Selection Sunday)
 
#1,038 ·
G'town is already separating itself from the other 6 in how this goes down. Also there has been talk of the ACC looking at adding Georgetown as a non-football member like they did with ND. The ACC wants to get some exposure back in the DC market since Maryland left. So don't be surprised if G'town isn't on board with this new conference. I don't think the new conference will be Catholic only. My guess is it will be 6 from the BE plus probably 10 from the A10, plus Creighton and Gonzaga. UMass will join up with Temple and the other football schools. G'town will be playing Duke and UNC as conference rivals. If G'town can get out of this they will. I think the ACC will lean towards doing it.

West: Dayton, Depaul, Marquette, Creighton, X, Butler, SLU, Duquesne, Gonzaga
East: St. John's, Providence, URI, Seton Hall, GW, Richmond, VCU, St. Joe's, Villanova
 
#1,063 ·
G'town is already separating itself from the other 6 in how this goes down. Also there has been talk of the ACC looking at adding Georgetown as a non-football member like they did with ND.
This would be a good post if you quoted a source. I thought only real journalists were allowed to print something without naming a source.

If your hypothetical, non-sourced, statement is true, and Georgetown would not be part of the BE7 "package deal", then joining the other 6 to try and make some new conference would make zero sense. Let them try and solicit bids to join nearby conferences.

The BE7 is nothing without Georgetown. And, if Georgetown was up for grabs as a free agent, the A-10 should make a pitch to them and shoot for a 15 team conference.. the 3x5 scenario.

I'm not writing this from a "woe is SBU" position. There are reasons a smaller A-10 could be good for SBU. What I am against is the complete arrogance displayed by the media outlets reporting about these BE7 as if they are the most coveted BB-only schools on the planet. 3 of the 7 couldn't compete successfully in the A-10 as it is. 2/7 would be middle of the pack mediocrity at it's finest. 1/7 would be decent. 1/7 would be outstanding.

That and I'm sick of pages upon pages of trying to convince that Dayton's a good fit for the BE7+. No kidding they'd be a good fit. You don't have to convince anyone. Just don't throw around "facts" that are absolute garbage. If X joined the BE7 then the Cinncy market is covered. I'd go for StL and get another market before I'd duplicate one and tke Dayton.
 
#1,047 · (Edited)

More of the same:


Big East Basketball: Back to the Future (Washington Post - December 14, 2012)

According to multiple reports, those seven — Georgetown, St. John’s, Seton Hall, Providence, Villanova, DePaul and Marquette — have informed the league that they’re taking their basketballs and going home. Or, more accurately, leaving home.

Those schools let Commissioner Mike Aresco know their intentions to leave during a conference call on Thursday during which Aresco tried to convince them to reconsider.

. . . All of that led to Thursday’s decision to bolt. The only question now is what form their leaving will take.

There are a number of options — all of them tied to money. If the seven leave en masse they will not, by rule, have to pay an exit fee. On the flip side, they won’t share in the roughly $50 million owed by the five schools that have previously departed. They could vote to dissolve the league. It takes a two-thirds vote, and only South Florida, Connecticut and Cincinnati also have votes on dissolution (Temple is a voting member but not on dissolution). So the votes would be there if needed. Of course it would be difficult then to try to demand exit fees from a league that no longer exists.

More important, long-term, is where the seven schools go next. They could join the Atlantic 10 and create the ludicrous specter of a 21-team conference. Imagine the slogan for the A-10 tournament: “The most exciting three weeks of championship week!”

Or, more logically, and more likely, they could cherry-pick several schools that are similar in profile: Dayton, Xavier, Butler, Saint Joseph’s and even Creighton have been mentioned. Those five plus the old-Big East seven would be a formidable basketball league. Even three of those five would make for a conference that will be very attractive to a TV network. There will be no Tulane-Houston games in that package.

Related post on BE7 conference expansion.


Taking into consideration the Washington Post article and other articles in my post linked above, it now appears that three scenarios are emerging as front-runners:

(1) a 10-school conference with Xavier, Dayton, and Butler (one non-Catholic member).

(2) a 10-school conference with Xavier, Dayton, and Saint Louis (no non-Catholic members).

(3) a 12-school conference with Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis, Creighton, and Gonzaga (no non-Catholic members).


Muddy’s Observations:

• The Washington Post article above is the first published article I have seen that mentioned St. Joseph's, but there is no mention of Saint Louis, who should have a much better chance of being invited by the BE7 than St. Joseph's. I suspect that this may be an error by the article's writer.

• It does not appear that the BE7 has any interest in adding VCU or Richmond to a 6-team East Division of a 12-school conference.

• It does appear that Georgetown is not willingly on board with the other BE7 schools and may wish to join Notre Dame in the ACC for basketball.

• Whether or not Georgetown can convince the ACC to invite them for basketball is unknown at this point.

• If Georgetown does join the ACC for basketball, the BE7 becomes the BE6, who may then decide to invite 4 or 6 more schools:

(4) a 10-school conference with Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis, and Butler (one non-Catholic member).

(5) a 10-school conference with Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis, and Creighton (no non-Catholic members).

(6) a 12-school conference with Xavier, Dayton, Saint Louis, Butler, Creighton, and Gonzaga (one non-Catholic member).

• Hopefully, there will be some more factual information about all of this published today (as opposed to more published rumors), but I suspect that the BE7 may not show their hand until next week.

• The Presidents of the BE7 schools have a lot of phone calls to make, a lot of financial projections to review, and a whole lot to consider (including the opinions of wealthy and influential benefactors) before there is any official announcement, and that will take days or weeks – not hours.

• I would not expect the Presidents of the BE7 schools to rush such an important decision and I don’t think they will.

 
#1,074 · (Edited)

Back to topic ==> Re: More BCS realignment

Big East Basketball: Back to the Future (Washington Post - December 14, 2012)

Or, more logically, and more likely, they could cherry-pick several schools that are similar in profile: Dayton, Xavier, Butler, Saint Joseph’s [sic*] and even Creighton have been mentioned.

Those five plus the old-Big East seven would be a formidable basketball league. Even three of those five would make for a conference that will be very attractive to a TV network. There will be no Tulane-Houston games in that package.

* Muddy's Note: I believe the writer meant Saint Louis - not Saint Joseph’s - and he failed to spot his mistake.

Big East’s Seven Catholic Schools Set to Bolt from Crumbling League (New York Post - Dec. 14, 2012)

The end of an era came the old fashioned way, on a telephone conference yesterday morning in which the presidents of the seven Catholic schools that comprise the core of the Big East informed commissioner Mike Aresco they have decided to break away from what once was the best basketball conference in the country, multiple sources told The Post.

The seven schools — DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John’s, Seton Hall and Villanova — will look to add five schools and reconstitute themselves as a basketball-centric league with schools located primarily in urban Northeast markets.

The schools of keenest interest to the seven are Butler, Dayton, St. Louis, and Xavier, with Creighton, Gonzaga, St. Mary’s and La Salle also on the radar.


This split is not about finances. It’s philosophical.

The "Catholic Seven" are done associating with schools that field big-time college football and pray at that altar.

Although this split is based on philosophical differences, the new league will have to address financial concerns. Non-football Big East members receive $1.6 million annually from its TV deals. Exactly what numbers a new Big East — call it the Great Northeast — could command is uncharted territory.

For comparison, Atlantic 10 schools receive about $750,000 annually in what are described as media rights fees. The new Big East likely would launch its own network and sell off marquee games. St. John’s could be uniquely positioned in this scenario because it is one of just six schools that produces its own HDTV broadcasts which can be viewed on TV, computers and smartphones.

By yesterday morning, led by St. John’s president Donald J. Harrington and Georgetown president Dr. John. J DeGioia, the Catholic seven had decided the time was right. The schools will look to sell their marquee games to networks such as ESPN and CBS.

 
#1,055 ·
10 teams allows for a true round robin without having a team sit out each gameday. Missing out on a weekend game is not ideal for ticket sales.

The MVC has gone with 10 members for awhile now and it is great for growing rivalries. The fact that nobody has a scheduling advantage eliminates perceptions of unfairness.

Obviously, I hope the new league goes to 12 as it helps Creighton's chances, but 10 is very viable.
 
#1,058 · (Edited)
If you are trying to find like minded programs to form a partnership, why would you include nine Catholic schools and ONE non catholic.

That doesn't make it for me.
For this reason Butler is left out IMHO.

I also don't get St. Louis before Dayton.
Dayton has twice as many NCAA invites during the last ten seasons.
Dayton puts more than twice the number of fans in the stands.
Dayton draws bigger numbers TV wise.
Dayton fans travel much bigger and better than the Billikens.

If it comes down to UD/St.Louis
This conference is stronger having Dayton in it--IMHO.
And isn't that what you want from a conference?
 
#1,078 ·
If you are trying to find like minded programs to form a partnership, why would you include nine Catholic schools and ONE non catholic.

That doesn't make it for me.
For this reason Butler is left out IMHO.

I also don't get St. Louis before Dayton.
Dayton has twice as many NCAA invites during the last ten seasons. 1
Dayton puts more than twice the number of fans in the stands. Because there is NOTHING ELSE TO DO THERE
Dayton draws bigger numbers TV wise. Because they only measure the Dayton Market (see above)
Dayton fans travel much bigger and better than the Billikens. YES - To the Cintas or downtown Cincy maybe

If it comes down to UD/St.Louis
This conference is stronger having Dayton in it--IMHO.
And isn't that what you want from a conference?

Dayton better figure out a plan B, you aren't going to be invited to the new party.
 
#1,060 ·
Why is this so hard to understand? EVERYTHING works this way. Xavier and Butler are already in because they bring the most basketball cache to the conference. The collective reputation of the conference in the revenue sport is what drives ad, licensing, etc revenue.

And SLU (and Creighton) are favorable to Dayton for pieces of that. St Louis is a far superior market and Creighton's basketball reputation is incomparable.

There's no spite to it. Dayton just is too average a basketball program to move the needle and its in an overlapping market.
 
#1,066 ·
Per the Notre Dame AD--the conversation surrounding the departure of said programs from the Big East dealt with the need and want to form a Catholic Conference.

For this reason--Butler is one the outside looking in.

Look--I realize Butler's done a terrific job and has had a few great runs in the NCAA tournament. Thats great.
That doesn't make you UCLA.
You're ONE year removed from the Horizons league.

Lets keep it real here.
You are second class citizen in your own City as INDY basketball fans are IU fans.
 
#1,062 · (Edited by Moderator)
I love the rivalry with Dayton and don't want to lose that. However, I wouldn't completely mind them being left out of the new conference so I wouldn't have to see Muddy's garbage ever again. No personal attacks. Attack the posts all you want, but not the poster.
 
#1,064 ·
Like I said before, it's become Lord of the Flies on this board!

I wonder if the A-10 schools who might consider departure will take awhile to decide. Two big questions need to be answered.

One, do the BE basketball schools get to retain the brand? I think this is a huge issue. Without the brand, the new league doesn't have nearly as much cache. It's very hard to establish a new brand in modern college athletics.

Second, will Georgetown continue to lobby the ACC for a deal like Notre Dame got? If The Hoyas are not part of the new Big East basketball conference - whatever it's name is - is it really such a great thing for an A-10 team to make the switch?

Obviously I have no idea how this will all play out, but I think it would be prudent for schools like Xavier to take their time to evaluate the situation. The schools do not have to make a quick decision.
 
#1,079 ·
One, do the BE basketball schools get to retain the brand? I think this is a huge issue. Without the brand, the new league doesn't have nearly as much cache. It's very hard to establish a new brand in modern college athletics.
From my seat, I dont think these schools want the Big East name. Its tarnished. It no longer means what it once did. The football schools and defections have rendered the name pointless. They have cannibalized its reputation permanently.

I especially dont think the A10 schools want that name. Its not an equitable clean start or reboot if the BE 7 schools are bringing their baggage and ID cards with them. If you are Xavier or Dayton or St. Louis, you want a completely clean page to begin from to level the playing field with the 7 BE schools.

People are still connecting the Big East brand to what it once was, not what it is now. The Big East is CUSA. Its like holding on to the Bubble-Up brand. Its days in the soda pop mainstream are over.
 
#1,065 ·
Its amazing how many people allow ONE poster to drive their whole thinking on a fan base. Fair enough that you clarified that but in your initial rant you lumped us all in that category.

And I fully realize you said NOW...I, and others, tend to disagree.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using VerticalSports.Com App
 
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