Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

UPDATE: Gay to Raptors agreed in principle MERGED

11K views 318 replies 50 participants last post by  Ron 
#1 · (Edited)
#111 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Paul George IS a chucker
 
  • Like
Reactions: R-Star
#115 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Nah, I'm just being an ass.

I don't dislike George but I don't particularly care for him either (sorry, R-Star), but I'd never think of him as a chucker (same goes for DeRozan). I think it's pretty random to label either of them as such.
 
#121 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

I have no idea what "special numbers" I'm using. We've been adjusting FG% for the value of three point shots for a generation, and scoring efficiency is also some 15 years old.
And 15 shots a game and at 44% are his stats.


Adjusting FG% for the value of three point shots? Ha..... Wow. So in your books, because Derozan is a sub par 3 point shooter at the whole whopping 1.7 times a game he shoots one it means hes a chucker.


Oh ok.
 
#123 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

I'm sorry that your engineer's mind has such problems with grade school math.
Feel free to elaborate. I ask questions and you seem to not want to answer.

Go back and answer the previous post or quit posting. Dermar Derozans poor 3 point shooting on the whopping 1.7 shots he takes from behind the arc a game make him a chucker?


You haven't called him a chucker since your original post, where you questioned if I even watch him play.


Again, elaborate about the math I'm having trouble understanding. The same math that makes 15 attempt a game Derozan a chucker, and takes every shot he can get his arms to throw up Harden a superb team player.


Or for once, admit you're wrong without adding a "but......" or "if you look at it......"


Nah, too much to ask. I look forward to your ingenious in the morning. I'm off to bed.
 
#130 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

How exactly was I under the impression that .455 is less than .439?
Because you're under the impression that aFG% penalises DeRozan by adjusting his FG% upwards to account for the value of his three point shots. The reality is that raw FG% penalises guys like George for shooting 4-5 treys a game, even though he shoots them well. So when assessing the shooting ability of perimeter players, in order to compare apples to apples, you use the adjusted FG%.

Your definition of a chucker is anyone who shoots under league average?
My definition of a chucker is an inefficient shooter and scorer that just keeps forcing up shots. If you're making them, you ain't a chucker. Only a lunatic would call Durant or James a chucker, despite the amount of FGAs they generate. Why? Because they produce points efficiently, which is the entire point of the game.
 
#127 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

The real question is how do you define chucker?
A guy who seems to take a shot any time he has the chance. Often taking his team out of offensive flow in doing so. Jacking up a contested 3 even though there's 10+ seconds on the shot clock. Etc.

JR Smith if we talk about current players.

Cavs version Ricky Davis.

Gilbert Arenas.
 
#128 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Eddie House is a chucker. I didn't use the past tense because I believe he is still in some Saturday morning rec league chucking it up every chance he gets. That will not change.
 
#132 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Also, Derozan hardly ever shoots 3's, which is the point of saying its asinine to bring up his 3 point shooting in fancy percentages like its somehow a huge mark against him.


If he was shooting 4 from behind the arc a game that would make sense. But he doesn't.
 
#143 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Look, on pure shots DeRozan produces .916 points/FGA as opposed to George's .98. If you want to add in DeRozan's FTAs then you also need to account for the possessions that he used getting them. And he still doesn't reach league average. There are no ways of looking at the numbers that DeRozan reaches league average as either a shooter or scorer.
 
#145 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

If you never re-address the "chucker" remark, this can go on forever.
Does DeRozan shoot well? Nope. Not by any standard. Does he score efficiently? Not at all. Does he force up a lot of shots and burn up a lot of possessions? Yes. How much ****ing clearer do I need to make it? That is the definition I gave of chucker.
 
#167 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Fair enough. I've made my case, I think Derozan makes a nice supporting starter on a better team. You said your piece. Now, I'm just going to bow out and let you and R-Star do your thing.
I've enjoyed you in the thread seeing as you obviously see more Raptor games than me. I guess you aren't needed though since EH has seen more Raptor games than anyone.
 
#171 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

For the record, I wouldn't call Gay or DeRozan a chucker. That's a term I'd reserve for the likes of Monta Ellis, Jamal Crawford, Kobe, JR Smith, Nate Robinson, and many more, and maybe even the likes of John Salmons as well.
 
#173 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

For the record, I wouldn't call Gay or DeRozan a chucker. That's a term I'd reserve for the likes of Monta Ellis, Jamal Crawford, Kobe, JR Smith, Nate Robinson, and many more, and maybe even the likes of John Salmons as well.
I have to ask, if Jamal Crawford is a chucker, despite efficient scoring, average shooting, and being 49th in the NBA in FGA, what chance do DeRozan and Gay have? (We won't even address the "chucker" that's 103rd in the NBA in FGA while still being an average shooter and scoring with average efficiency.)
 
#174 · (Edited)
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

I'd mention that Derozan is easily the #1 offensive weapon on his team, thus facing opposing teams best defenders, and Crawford plays on what is widely seen as the league deepest team and comes off the bench, and has been known his whole career to dribble up on the play and immediately jack up a 3 with a defenders hand right in his face and 3/4 of the clock left, and not to mention only 2 of his 12 year career has he shot better than Derozan is right now, this year not even being one of them, but...... well we know EH isn't changing his mind here.


He's right, and you're wrong Pacer fan. And you're stupid for ever trying to argue with him.
 
#177 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Ha! zing.
 
#180 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

No, I'm not the one changing things at all. That would be the thread's "innocent victim". In fact, I didn't even say that he wasn't a chucker. I simply asked how poor DeRozan or Gay could avoid the label when the 49th and 103rd leading FGA guys in the NBA were. Not that I expect an answer out of you because you'll never give one. You'll just predictably call me stupid, complain that I'm calling you names and change the subject.
 
#181 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

No, I'm not the one changing things at all. That would be the thread's "innocent victim". In fact, I didn't even say that he wasn't a chucker. I simply asked how poor DeRozan or Gay could avoid the label when the 49th and 103rd leading FGA guys in the NBA were. Not that I expect an answer out of you because you'll never give one. You'll just predictably call me stupid, complain that I'm calling you names and change the subject.
It seems a little odd to me that you are now saying a guy at 49th in shooting shouldn't be labeled a chucker if the 17th isn't, yet you made a big argument about how Lebron and Durant couldn't be labeled as chuckers.....


Lets come up with specific values for the EH system.


THE EH MUNRO RULE OF CHUCKING
FGA per Game
1-9 Not chuckers. Superstars
10 Rudy Gay, chucker
11-18 Depends
19 DeMar Derozan, chucker
20-44 Depends
45 Jamal Crawford. Only a chucker if poster is also willing to call Derozan and Gay chuckers, even though they both score at much better efficiency





Oh, and to clarify for you before you try to twist my post with "R-Stawr thinks wittle Webron and Duwant are chuckers!" .... no. I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is that you bring up FGA as damning evidence for 2 players (Gay and Derozan), then go and use it as defense for the guys at the top of the league, and follow that up by saying it shouldn't count for guys lower in the league who don't lead their teams in shots.


I probably should have just stayed out the first time. You do understand that not one person in the whole thread has agreed with your logic, correct? And honestly, answer that question if you decide to post again.
 
#185 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Just......give it a rest. I'm tired of this thread hijacking the entire website.
Fair enough. You're right, its gone on far too long.


I tend to get angry with the set of posters on here who refuse to ever retract a statement or admit to being wrong. But I've said my peace and having nothing more to add to the argument.
 
#186 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Cool. Now, getting back to the Rudy Gay trade rumors, word is the Wizards are in early talks with the Grizzlies, but it's unclear what's actually being offered(essentially, if Beal's on the table). If Memphis can get Beal I think it's worth taking back whatever contracts to make the deal work, but I hate that trade for Washington. If it's lesser players and cap relief going Memphis' way the trade still only leaves me lukewarm for Washington. I actually feel like they're in worse shape than Charlotte is right now.
 
#194 ·
Re: UPDATE: Toronto and Phoenix Interested In Rudy Gay

Cool. Now, getting back to the Rudy Gay trade rumors, word is the Wizards are in early talks with the Grizzlies, but it's unclear what's actually being offered(essentially, if Beal's on the table). If Memphis can get Beal I think it's worth taking back whatever contracts to make the deal work, but I hate that trade for Washington. If it's lesser players and cap relief going Memphis' way the trade still only leaves me lukewarm for Washington. I actually feel like they're in worse shape than Charlotte is right now.
A couple quick updates. Beal is not the trade talks, as per his agent.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225590/Agent_Beal_Isnt_Involved_In_Wizards_Trade_Discussions_For_Gay

And Gay is likely to stay in Memphis. My guess would be because of the high asking price.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225574/Source_Gay_Likely_To_Stay_With_Grizzlies_This_Season
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top