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The Fordham University Rams

58K views 376 replies 96 participants last post by  BillB 
#1 ·
Believe it or not, the Rams are to host Tech at the Rose Hill Gym, Thurday evening, December 29.
Could this be another surprise as we did lst year v. St. John's? School is out so we wont have the students behind the team.

Last ACC team to play at RHG was NC State in 1965.

Two present teams from the ACC played there but they were not affiliated with the ACC i.e., BC & VA Tech when the games were played.
 
#179 ·
Please......the Patriot League is no longer the dumping ground it once was. Last year, Lehigh beat Duke in the first round of the NCAA tournament and lost a close second round game to Xavier. Bucknell went to the NIT and beat Arizona. With the addition of Boston U (large,in-city,good academics,great facilities) and Loyola(MD)(winner of the MAAC last year), the conference is on the upswing. Of course it is not the A10, but it is not the dregs of the NCAA either.

With that said, everyone knows winning begets winning. Fordham would be more competitive in the PL which may mean better recruits that want to go to a winning school and hence more wins, etc, etc. With winning comes pressure to improve facilities.

I would welcome Fordham to the Patriot as the 11th member and then
begin the search for a 12th member - William & Mary, Hofstra, Drexel, Fairfield, LaSalle, St Joe's.............
 
#180 ·
I would welcome Fordham to the Patriot as the 11th member and then
begin the search for a 12th member - William & Mary, Hofstra, Drexel, Fairfield, LaSalle, St Joe's.............
Are you new to the PL? My assumption is that you are a Boston U. fan rather than a Bucknell fan b/c there is no way the PL would invite some of the schools you mention. The pretense among a large chunk of their alums is sometimes incomprehensible and several of those schools would simply not allow some of the schools you mention into the PL. Of those you mentioned, there might be 2 or 3 they would invite.
 
#182 · (Edited)
ramram cannot stand the heat on the Fordham board on the issue of our going to the PL so he comes to the A-10 board looking for a friendlier audience. Others are still defending a potential move but ramram did not want a debate, he wanted to preach to a choir.

Understand this A-10 posters, ramram could not care less about Fordham basketball, he is one of the football fans who thinks if we move everything to the PL then the football budget will be increased. He talks about big donors being annoyed that we are losing in basketball because of our infrastructure but if that was the case wouldn't they offer to put up some money to improve the failities if they cared about basketball? These people are totally made up.

Ramram is stuck in the Lombardi era even though no one other than a few old Fordham alumni care that Lombardi was at Fordham. He will focus on Lombardi but not tell you that we have had only 5 winning football seasons since we joined the PL in football over 20 years ago. He will not tell you in 20 years the best we could do were 2 PL football championships, the PL is one of the worst conferences in FCS football. Yet he will continue to tell you how winning matters. There has always been a tension between basketball and football fans ever since we moved to the PL. We basketball fans hated the move and never want to go back, football fans loved it because it got us out of DIII. Ask Ramram how he would feel about going back to DIII for all sports, we would certainly win more football games there and according to him winning at whatever division you play in is what matters.

Sorry to spoil your little party here ramram, I hope this does not cause you to run off to the PL board, I definitely will not go there.
 
#183 ·
ramram cannot stand the heat on the Fordham board on the issue of our going to the PL so he comes to the A-10 board looking for a friendlier audience. Others are still defending a potential move but ramram did not want a debate, he wanted to preach to a choir.

Understand this A-10 posters, ramram could not care less about Fordham basketball, he is one of the football fans who thinks if we move everything to the PL then the football budget will be increased. As you can tell he is stuck in the Lombardi era and the idea that our football program has helped our national presence is ridiculous, most kids do not even know Lombardi had anything to do with Fordham. He will not tell you that have had only 5 winning football seasons since we joined the PL in football over the past 20 years. He will not tell you in 20 years the best we could do were 2 PL championships, the PL is one of the worst conferences in FCS football. Yet he will continue to tell you how winning matters.

Sorry to spoil your little party here ramram, I hope this does not cause you to run off to the PL board, I definitely will not go there.
Personal attacks by this poster is the norm for Fordham Basketball fans to have to explain the decades of dismal performance of the program by knocking our football team.

I feel a little sorry for them, for yes our national football glory days may be over ... but better to have had a glorious history, than to have never had one at all.
 
#184 ·
Another favorite tact of ramram, you debate the issue and he calls it a personal attack. I did not call him any names. He does not want to debate the issue, he wants to stand on a soap box and preach to you all as you hopefully nod your head.
 
#186 ·
A10 posters, I am not here to knock our current program, I am just saddened that we have had only two NCAA appearances in the last 40 years. That despite spending money; on a big name former NBA coaches and a 3/4 million salary for our current coach, many TV games, expensive advertising and promotions, we are still losing, and losing bad.

The real debate, which some venues find it hard to hear, is that given our facilities and level of support by our fans and administration, a change in league/conference is logical.
I understand that hurts fans of the program .... but a losing program, that few carea bout, way from Fordham, can not be allowed to continua.
 
#188 · (Edited)
Our football facilites are pathetic even by PL standards. We spend 6 million a year on FCS football which no one outside of Fordham cares about even if we win and go to the FCS playoffs. Clawson struck lightening in a bottle won a PL title and left. Before that we were pathetic for 15 years, the laughing stock of the PL. Look at the records. Massella wins a title with Clawson's players and then he crashes and burns. We give out scholarships when the PL teams do not and still lose to them. Moorhead has a nice year last year but we did not beat one scholarship program.

Given our facilities and lack of support for football we should drop it and put our resources into basketball. The schools in this conference that have consistently had success in basketball on a national level have done so by focusing on basketball and cutting football.

That is a better answer then dropping basketball to the PL. Take the 6 million a year we spend on FCS football which has 0 national appeal and put it into an A-10 basketball program that if successful would bring national recognition for Fordham. If it is a choice between the 2 there is no comparison a successful A-10 basketball program will bring a lot more to Fordham than a successful FCS football program.
 
#199 · (Edited)
I think you have to look at what happened with the money saved when football was dropped. The only way it would work is if Fordham said we are dropping football and putting that money into basketball to improve the facilities. Xavier had a specific plan for basketball and executed it including putting the highest percentage of its athletic budget towards basketball. Their alumni jumped on the bandwagon and got behind the effort and the results speak for themselves. Georgetown spends less than half of what Fordham spends on football and its basketball budget dwarfs ours. Fordhanm spends 20% of its athletic budget on FCS football. It is crazy since even if you win no one cares about FCS football.

XUDash you hit the nail on the head with the aging football donor base. It will not last and Fordham needs to plan for the future instead catering to those who live in the past.
 
#200 ·
If the A-10 is going to blow up, then those of us remaining in the A-10 need Fordham basketball to be on the highest level it can be. Your football program is functioning in obscurity and your basketball program is close to it. The ROI on FCS football is obviously significant enough for schools to keep the programs around, but what is the ROI at Fordham, specifically? As "XU dash" points out, maybe that number is enough to warrant keeping the program. If that's the case, and "business as usual" is here to stay at Fordham, then I'd say move on to a new league. It will come down to dollars and cents, and whether or not building a strong BB prorgam will offset any revenue lost by dropping FB. Someone will have to do the math. From the A-10 perspective it is far better interest of the conference for you to focus on BB.

Duquesne folks out there - how's FCS football treating you guys? Was it worth decimating men's Olympic sports for football, i.e. has the "donorship" increased enough to well offset the cost of running the team? Just curious.
 
#201 ·
Last I remember seeing, Fordham football was near even due to donations. In other words, donations mostly off-set the cost. I do think that is changing and will continue to change due to the inevitable. They will need some younger guys to step up with big donations if they plan to sustain the near break even they have now.

I don't know what football does for overall donorship. That's a good question posed by BrownIndian85 to the Duquesne fans, but also important for any program in any sport. If donatins are only keeping the program afloat, is it really worth it? I would say that if the program can bring you national recognition and in turn increase your applicant pool, better the quality of the applicant, then yes it is worth it. Can an FCS program do that? My opinion is that it cannot, but others might disagree.
 
#202 ·
Last I remember seeing, Fordham football was near even due to donations. In other words, donations mostly off-set the cost. I do think that is changing and will continue to change due to the inevitable. They will need some younger guys to step up with big donations if they plan to sustain the near break even they have now.

I don't know what football does for overall donorship. That's a good question posed by BrownIndian85 to the Duquesne fans, but also important for any program in any sport. If donatins are only keeping the program afloat, is it really worth it? I would say that if the program can bring you national recognition and in turn increase your applicant pool, better the quality of the applicant, then yes it is worth it. Can an FCS program do that? My opinion is that it cannot, but others might disagree.
And most would agree with you.

We're kinda into Marketing 101 here with respect to brand management. Successful athletic programs that attain some amount of national stature broaden reach, which broadens awareness. The more people there are that are aware of such a school, the more they may want to share in taking pride in it. So, applicant pools do increase. Those prideful alumni donate more overtime. Better yet, those applicant pools end up generating a more effective mix of students.

Fordham is positioned to be a good school for a long time. But Fordham is otherwise missing out on achieving its full potential.
 
#203 ·
heavy athletic donors at Fordham are football-centric.


Well yes, there are some overweight old men sitting around drowning in their beers, dreaming of those football games 80 years ago against NYU at the Polo Grounds and shouting "Rose Hill to the Rose Bowl!" to no one in particular.

However, not all of them are delusional They understand that the success of football and basketball programs is not inexplicably tied to both being in the PL. They understand that both programs can be successful in their present conferences and that, above all, what is needed is a University President with the vision to understand how a successful athletic program can compliment and enhance the school's academic success.
 
#206 ·
What my basketball friends are forgetting is that the "Digger" year is now ancient history itself. No one believes that year is ever coming back. Attacking football may make the followers of our marque sport feel good, but it doesn't doesn't. Generate wins. The program is not relevant except to the 300 fans sitting behind the bench in bell bottom pants. It isn't 1970 anymore - forty years ago is starting to look like ancient history to 18 year old recruits.
 
#207 ·
This from the guy who just referenced Vince Lombardi. Who is arguing the Digger year? Basketball fans look forward not backward. Nice straw man argument attempt.

By the way we drew 2500 fans to the Siena game on December 23 which surprised me. Two teams with poor records two days before Christmas. Not bad for a program no one supposedly cares about. Your 300 number will be accurate of we move back to the PL, but you do not care which is the best part of this conversation. You could not care less about basketball winning or losing, you just want to cut the budget and put more money in the pit that is an FCS football program.
 
#214 ·
A10 fans - keep an eye on our conference record that will be all the reasoning behind the move to the PL. But the time has come to end this grade school back and forth.

I will make this my last post here, taking the discussion to a more (????) interested venue...

But first ...

Here is the inside scoop, from someone with close ties to the administration;

(1) there is absolutely no possibility that we would drop football to advance our participation in the A10. If a decision to drop football would happen (not likely) it would not be to assist basketball in the A10, they are mutually exclusive.

(2)No new basketball facility is being advocated for at least a decade or so, and that is by design. Our priorities lie elsewhere, and academics and infra-structure (non-athletic) is our focus.

(3)Internal opinions believe that we have given the A10 a chance, but are being outpaced by events and financial commitments that we can't meet. The consensus is that we will let it "die on the vine" in a few more years, as fans call for the end to the losing or be asked to leave sooner.

(4) Emotions and insulting our current football association aside, and objective look at the situation shows we are not unique in our aspirations, but unfortunately not every school is in a position to have them realized. Fordham by circumstance,is not able to participate at an elevated level - sorry to say.

The answer will be the patriot League or another like conference, because the losing has to stop, and winning does matter ...
 
#215 ·
1. They are not mutually exclusive and the Fordham alumni will make the administration consider dropping football if the talk is serious (it is not now) about moving to the PL. Serious questions will be asked about where we are spending our money and what we will get for it.

2. The issue is not a new basketball facility, it is using MSG and the Barc. To do that we need to win games Pecora is well aware of this fact. Also, ask Moorhead what he thinks of our football facilities, if we do not improve them he will leave the second he has a better offer. I guess you think we will put aside our academic aspirations for FCS football but not basketball.

3. If by internal opinions you mean Jeff Gray well yes, he is one person who wants to move to the PL and he tried it over the summer but the BOT told him to pound sand. Our AD has repeatedly stated we are committed to the A-10. I always love the in a few years, that means we have at least 2 more years if not more. Anything can happen in a few years.

4. Fordham is in a position to compete at the A-10 level, it just has to make the commitment.

As for the conference record being the reason we may leave, well thanks for the heads up. Without you I would not have thought that our not winning conference games will hurt us.

Once again Ramram gets hammered by the Fordham faithful who want to push the administration to compete at the A-10 level and runs away. Where will he appear, I do not think the PL has a message board. :twoguns:
 
#225 ·
update on facilities for Fordham

Fordham's Athletic Director stated yesterday (over the University's radio station WFUV) that there are no plans (contrary to misinformation posted in another thread) for a new basketball/convocation center on campus at this time, unless additional development funds can be raised.

It is hard to see how we can compete at this level without a new facility, and unless performance changes dramatically, student and fan attendance at offsite venues (like the Barclay's Arema or MSG) will be limited.

The administration must make a new arena a priority, because future conference alignments (if they go the way of the anticipated super 60 inf FBS football), may imposed minimum facility and attendance requirements to determine league association.
 
#227 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

Fordham's Athletic Director stated yesterday (over the University's radio station WFUV) that there are no plans (contrary to misinformation posted in another thread) for a new basketball/convocation center on campus at this time, unless additional development funds can be raised.

It is hard to see how we can compete at this level without a new facility, and unless performance changes dramatically, student and fan attendance at offsite venues (like the Barclay's Arema or MSG) will be limited.

The administration must make a new arena a priority, because future conference alignments (if they go the way of the anticipated super 60 inf FBS football), may imposed minimum facility and attendance requirements to determine league association.
Another fake post. This guy is an Iona troll.

A new on-campus arena , campus center and recreation center will be in the capital plan in the next Fordham fundraising campaign. The present $500 Million campaign is close to being completed.
 
#237 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

I know it is just an example, but as you pointed out earlier Trump did not graduate from Fordham. He graduated from UPenn and is not going to donate to Fordham. I am fairly sure he has been approached before. The rest of those on your list do need to be approached though.
 
#238 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

BTW, one of the things left out by the poster who started this thread is that the AD did mention that we would be raising funds to upgrade overall athletic facilities, just not the gym itself. I think that is beneficial b/c that is a big part of what recruits see, weight rooms, meeting rooms, locker rooms, etc. Anything that can help recruiting is important right now.
 
#243 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

BTW, one of the things left out by the poster who started this thread is that the AD did mention that we would be raising funds to upgrade overall athletic facilities, just not the gym itself. I think that is beneficial b/c that is a big part of what recruits see, weight rooms, meeting rooms, locker rooms, etc. Anything that can help recruiting is important right now.
On that note, follow the Marquette model. They put up a very nice center on campus and otherwise play down the street in Milwaukee's NBA arena.

It truly is a shame Fordham did not have more progressive leadership at least 10 years ago. Fordham, with a commitment and with some success, would have been a no-brainer for most realignment scenarios.

All the heavy moving is taking place now. Perhaps Fordham can catch up at some point, but it has definitely put itself in a tenuous position.
 
#240 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

Ram Ram and other Fordham Basketball Fans/Supporters, If the University is putting very little priority into trying to develop a new basketball/sporting arena, why don't you guys all group up and try to do something. I'm not saying for everyone to donate large sums of money but instead unite under one and write letters to the University, go to meetings, anything etc. Maybe someone can start a new website about the idea of a new facility? I've checked out the Fordham Basketball board before and it seems to have a pretty good following there. The fans are passionate about their team and that is excellent considering they have not had that much success in their time in the A-10. It might be wishful thinking (I hope that you guys do get a new arena somewhat soon) but I think its really up to the Fordham Fans to make this happen at this point, as it doesn't seem like the University is to focused on this. Instead of complaining about the situation try to make a difference and make the change.
 
#241 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

Ram Ram and other Fordham Basketball Fans/Supporters, If the University is putting very little priority into trying to develop a new basketball/sporting arena, why don't you guys all group up and try to do something. I'm not saying for everyone to donate large sums of money but instead unite under one and write letters to the University, go to meetings, anything etc. Maybe someone can start a new website about the idea of a new facility? I've checked out the Fordham Basketball board before and it seems to have a pretty good following there. The fans are passionate about their team and that is excellent considering they have not had that much success in their time in the A-10. It might be wishful thinking (I hope that you guys do get a new arena somewhat soon) but I think its really up to the Fordham Fans to make this happen at this point, as it doesn't seem like the University is to focused on this. Instead of complaining about the situation try to make a difference and make the change.
You can be assured there are people working behind the scenes to get a new arena built at Rose Hill. And just a heads-up - ram ram is an Iona troll.
 
#247 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

Why is there So much "Arena Envy" on this and othe boards?
How big are the on campus arenas at Georgetown, Providence, DePaul, seton Hall, all big East schools. Check them out and where they play home games.
It has nothing to do with arena envy. It has everything to do with how well a program is positioned for success. In today's game, facilities matter a great deal if sustainable success - defined primarily as consistent and often deep NCAA participation - is the goal.

The on-campus arenas of the C7 don't matter, as long as they can put up strong attendance numbers in the facilities they use, be they NBA arenas or public facilities like the Dunk.
 
#245 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

Very sad indeed. That's the same gym I played basketball in when I was in 7th grade. I'm not in my late 30's. Sad.
 
#250 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

Good point about Hagan. I am not sure how much more it would have cost to upgrade to 6k capacity, but you are right that if you are going to spend $15mm, it might be wise to not leave yourself in a spot where you are still coming up short. I also don't know how feasible it was to expand it any further. I know that at Fordham it has been determined by architects that the RHG cannot be expanded. Age, foundation and the architecture used does not allow for expansion. When we do upgrade, and I did say "when", it will have to be something new.

Rumors around our board is that for a 6.5k arena with the proper facilities and amenities, we'd have to spend close to $100-120mm. I suspect that is partially due to NYC costs b/c Towson U. down the road from me is building a new 5.2k facility for $68mm.

What would be your capacity minimum for a new on-campus facility?
 
#254 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

Good point about Hagan. I am not sure how much more it would have cost to upgrade to 6k capacity, but you are right that if you are going to spend $15mm, it might be wise to not leave yourself in a spot where you are still coming up short. I also don't know how feasible it was to expand it any further. I know that at Fordham it has been determined by architects that the RHG cannot be expanded. Age, foundation and the architecture used does not allow for expansion. When we do upgrade, and I did say "when", it will have to be something new.

Rumors around our board is that for a 6.5k arena with the proper facilities and amenities, we'd have to spend close to $100-120mm. I suspect that is partially due to NYC costs b/c Towson U. down the road from me is building a new 5.2k facility for $68mm.

What would be your capacity minimum for a new on-campus facility?
I may think a little differently than some here, especially those of you on the eastern seaboard who do live the pro town stuff 24 by 7. Nonetheless, if your school's name isn't spelled D-U-K-E, then getting above 10k is a solid number. It's a "we don't fart around number" when you have capacity like that while filling the place up.

On the one hand, you're probably making sufficient cash flow to manage a successful program on a sustainable basis. On the other, except for Dayton, you're achieving at a very high level to keep the fans coming.

10k. Then make it happen.
 
#252 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

I have no idea how many of their conference games are played in those very small, on campus (?) facilities...but I would think not many. But I wonder if that's not a hidden factor in the C7 split. Without Syracuse, Pitt and eventually UConn on the schedule, maybe some of those schools recognized they wouldn't be able to keep the big rent-a-box places paid for when SMU comes to town.

Not sure if the conference additions will either, but that's a lot of schools needing to find some 10,000 size locations I would think.
 
#253 · (Edited)
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

I have no idea how many of their conference games are played in those very small, on campus (?) facilities...but I would think not many. But I wonder if that's not a hidden factor in the C7 split. Without Syracuse, Pitt and eventually UConn on the schedule, maybe some of those schools recognized they wouldn't be able to keep the big rent-a-box places paid for when SMU comes to town.

Not sure if the conference additions will either, but that's a lot of schools needing to find some 10,000 size locations I would think.
Quick search for a few told me the following on how much they play on campus:
St. John's - 10 (thanks ramMan)
Georgetown - 0
Seton Hall - 1
Providence - 0
DePaul - 1
Marquette - 0
Villanova - 13
 
#257 ·
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

Something about Xavier (proceeding from Dash's timeline above) was the availability of the Cincinnati Gardens in our growth as a place to rent. Leaving the on campus small Schmidt facility, and going to the Gardens(10K) gave us a chance to have a temporary home while we invested in other parts of the program. As the success came, we were able to transition finally into the Cintas. The Gardens were close to campus, but not the same (especially for dorm students) as having your own, good size place.(10K)

The BE schools rent really large, arena type venues, that must be pretty costly. I wonder if there are any mid-size places (10K) to utilize until maybe they build their own on campus place. Then again, if they can put out a quality product and fill the big box, guess they wouldn't even think about it.
 
#259 · (Edited)
Re: update on facilities for Fordham

Most of the league games that Villanova and St. John's have played off campus are against Big East teams that will no longer be conference partners. Don't look for them to play additional conference games off campus in the coming years. If anything, it will be less. They are losing their biggest league draws - Syracuse, Pitt, ND, UConn, and Louisville. Georgetown and St. John's will however likely still have games against Syracuse off campus for OOC games as Boeheim is on record as saying he wants those opponents to remain on the schedule. He made these comments when he played his last Big East game in Providence basically saying he probably won't be coming back to town in the future to play PC.
 
#260 ·
Vote for Fordham

We don't make these tournaments often, so throw us a bone here and if you ever find yourself at or near Fordham make sure to stop at Pugsley's for a chicken roll, they are excellent. My usual is a chicken roll, a slice and a beer. My 8 year old son had hai first chicken roll before the Butler game this season. He was hesitant, but ended up loving it.

http://blog.cookingchanneltv.com/2013/03/22/cooking-channel-march-madness-best-college-eats/

Dayton fans should especially want to vote for us, we are up against Marquette.
 
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