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**Sir Patchwork** · 03-01-2005, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP McMurphy

I don't think Chris Wilcox is a good enough player to be making those kinds of demands. He's had plenty of chances to prove that he deserves a starting job in this league, and he's pretty much blown all of them. It's time to start calling him a bust.

This is true, he has looked absolutely dreadful lately. He barely plays, and when he does he looks lost. He does make a nice play every now and then, as a lot of athletic guys do, but I can't believe how many people were calling for Brand to be traded early in the season to make room for Wilcox at their long term starting spot.

**BEEZ** · 03-01-2005, 06:00 AM

To me if what he was doing the first 6 weeks of the season means anything then I would think that he has a leg to stand on. You have to remember they had him playing Center which he is not. 16 pts and 8 rbds for 6 weeks doesnt seem to be a fluke to me. He hasnt played the same since hes come back off of injury so calling him a bust is not a correct statement. Hes shown what he could do when he gets time so it would be fair for to want to play somewhere where that would happen

**DwyaneWade4MVP** · 03-01-2005, 06:00 AM

Why do all of you guys think, Francis has to go??

In a speech to the fans before the pregame Miami @ Orlando started he told all of the fans that he is gonna try anything here to win and I was pretty impressed by that...

Captain Obvious · 03-01-2005, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwyaneWade4MVP

Why do all of you guys think, Francis has to go??

In a speech to the fans before the pregame Miami @ Orlando started he told all of the fans that he is gonna try anything here to win and I was pretty impressed by that...

I don't think anybody's going to question Francis' heart or his desire to win, but he has really been hurting us lately. I still think the most important thing to do is fire Davis. Not after the season, right now. Another thing is Francis' eye has been really messed up for the last couple of weeks so maybe that has more to do with his lackluster play than he's admitting.

Yyzlin · 03-01-2005, 12:48 PM

The Francis/Boozer trade is improbable, but so are plenty of the trades that happen. It all hinges on how much Utah wants Boozer out. And let's be real. Sloan may not want Francis on the team, but there's no denying that his skills would be a perfect fit with that team. Right now, they have no one to create on the perimeter except Kirilenko, and that's a huge problem.

magicfan187 · 03-01-2005, 02:03 PM

what about francis for hinrich and chandler? hinrich could start at the two guard and chandler could start at center. with howard and him down low it would be tuff to score with them long arms. and hinrich would give us an outside shooter in our starting lineup to go along with nelson (which would be a good fit with howard when he gets his offense going).

**BEEZ** · 03-01-2005, 02:16 PM

Bulls wouldnt give that up for Francis and they probably wouldnt even trade for Francis when they have the same type of player in Ben Gordon

RP McMurphy · 03-01-2005, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEEZ

To me if what he was doing the first 6 weeks of the season means anything then I would think that he has a leg to stand on. You have to remember they had him playing Center which he is not. 16 pts and 8 rbds for 6 weeks doesnt seem to be a fluke to me. He hasnt played the same since hes come back off of injury so calling him a bust is not a correct statement. Hes shown what he could do when he gets time so it would be fair for to want to play somewhere where that would happen

He didn't average 16 points and 8 rebounds for 6 weeks. In November he averaged 13.7 points and 6.8 rebounds, and by December (when Chris Kaman came back from his injury) he was already losing minutes.

Averaging less than 14 points and 7 rebounds isn't all that good to begin with. There are any number of backup big men who could average those numbers if you gave them a starting job. For example, Antonio McDyess, Stromile Swift, Mike Sweetney, Eddie Griffin, Nick Collison, Malik Rose, Al Jefferson, Melvin Ely. Do all these guys deserve starting jobs too? There aren't enough starting jobs to go around that a player as mediocre as these guys deserves to start. Then when you throw in how badly he's sucked since December, getting a DNP every other game, there's no way I'd want him to start for me.

And if a player is drafted with the eighth pick and can't even be a starter it's fair to call him a bust.

**BEEZ** · 03-01-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RP McMurphy

He didn't average 16 points and 8 rebounds for 6 weeks. In November he averaged 13.7 points and 6.8 rebounds, and by December (when Chris Kaman came back from his injury) he was already losing minutes.

Averaging less than 14 points and 7 rebounds isn't all that good to begin with. There are any number of backup big men who could average those numbers if you gave them a starting job. For example, Antonio McDyess, Stromile Swift, Mike Sweetney, Eddie Griffin, Nick Collison, Malik Rose, Al Jefferson, Melvin Ely. Do all these guys deserve starting jobs too? There aren't enough starting jobs to go around that a player as mediocre as these guys deserves to start. Then when you throw in how badly he's sucked since December, getting a DNP every other game, there's no way I'd want him to start for me.

And if a player is drafted with the eighth pick and can't even be a starter it's fair to call him a bust.

Ok fair enough, but 14 and 7 is decent. All the guys you mentioned are not 14 and 7 guys at the time so I dont know where you are going with that. The Clippers have Elton Brand and a Legit 7 foot Center in front of him so basically who is he going to unseat. Regardless of how he plays hes not going to supplant Brand and with Brand making the money he is, hes not going on the bench. Hes not big enough to be a Center so Im really not understanding where you are coming from. I have stated that hes played bad since his injury but that happens, I just dont see how a guy who was drafted 8th that has had a Borderline All-star caliber Power Forward in front of him who hasnt gotten consistent minutes a bust even though hes only avg 20 minutes a game and had been steadily progressing each of his 3 years in the league. Unfortunately I dont see that as a bust. It makes no sense at this point. even with his sporadic minutes he still avg a respectable 9 pts 5 rbd

efes pilsen · 03-01-2005, 10:29 PM

how about francis for tony parker. it'd have been an excellent trade . parker is going to sing the long term contract this off season so if we can pull this off it would be sign-and-trade for us. eventhough i don't think R.C Bufford - their GM- is that dumb to take francis i think it's worth trying.

**BEEZ** · 03-02-2005, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by efes pilsen

how about francis for tony parker. it'd have been an excellent trade . parker is going to sing the long term contract this off season so if we can pull this off it would be sign-and-trade for us. eventhough i don't think R.C Bufford - their GM- is that dumb to take francis i think it's worth trying.

The only thing is Tony Parker was extended last year. San Antonio would never do that trade as Tony Parker has been playing very well lately

efes pilsen · 03-02-2005, 07:38 AM

i don't think they extended his contract yet.i agree it would be almost impossible spurs to trade him but maybe if he chokes in the playoffs like last year aftre 2 games agaist lakers that might be our chance . i remember spurs fans and coaching staff was pretty unhappy with his play then.

RP McMurphy · 03-02-2005, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEEZ

Ok fair enough, but 14 and 7 is decent. All the guys you mentioned are not 14 and 7 guys at the time so I dont know where you are going with that.

I'm sorry I did a bad job of making my argument. What I was trying to say is, all these guys could average 14 and 7 if they got the same minutes Wilcox was getting for a month. Melvin Ely averaged 16 points and 9.5 rebounds in the first eight games of February (when Emeka Okafor was injured). Stromile Swift is averaging 15 points and 6 rebounds over his last 11 games. Mike Sweetney has had a couple of huge games since becoming a starter. Give any of the other guys I mentioned a starting job and they could do the same thing.

I think you're failing to appreciate that any NBA player is going to put up decent stats if you give them a starting job. That doesn't make them a quality starter.

Quote:

The Clippers have Elton Brand and a Legit 7 foot Center in front of him so basically who is he going to unseat. Regardless of how he plays hes not going to supplant Brand and with Brand making the money he is, hes not going on the bench. Hes not big enough to be a Center so Im really not understanding where you are coming from.

Which team is he going to go to then? Here are the teams that have an established power forward, who isn't going anywhere.

Bobcats - Emeka Okafor
Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
Denver - Kenyon Martin
Detroit - Rasheed Wallace
Indiana - Jermaine O'Neal
LA Clippers - Elton Brand
LA Lakers - Lamar Odom
Memphis - Pau Gasol
Minnesota - Kevin Garnett
Philadelphia - Chris Webber
Phoenix - Amare Stoudemire
Portland - Zach Randolph
San Antonio - Tim Duncan
Toronto - Chris Bosh
Utah - Carlos Boozer
Washington - Antawn Jamison

Then there are the teams who have a young power forward prospect who they're already trying to develop, and would never be able to give starter's min

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