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**JNice** · 02-10-2004, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IV!
Than the problem would be the management that trades away the good supporting cast, keyword "good." The management is the problem the players aren't. It's the same ole tired excuse every year in Orlando, blaming everyone but your hero isn't going to change anything.

So wait, you agree that management has made very bad decisions and weakened the team, yet it is still "our hero's" fault that the team sucks. Interesting argument.

Quote:

That's not true now, and his still has a much better record. And they certainly wouldn't lose 19 games in a row.

You think Philly's team, or Iverson's supporting cast actually, is on par with Orlando's? You are nuts. They've got a near All-Star caliber player in Glenn Robinson. They've still got McKie and Snow, who are both savvy veterans and very good defensive players. Dalembert is becoming a defensive force in the middle. If correct me if I am wrong, but AI isn't doing too much lately .. I believe they have lost 8 out of their last 10 ... You just want to hate on Tmac so badly.

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GM mistakes.

Agreed. Ofcourse, it is still Tmac's fault, right?

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And who made those mistakes? The GM.

Yep. Not Tmac.

IV · 02-12-2004, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JNice!

So wait, you agree that management has made very bad decisions and weakened the team, yet it is still "our hero's" fault that the team sucks. Interesting argument.

Agreed. Ofcourse, it is still Tmac's fault, right?

Yep. Not Tmac.

I see....

You changed the argument. What we were originally debating was whether the team's supporting cast was the problem or whether it was the GM? This has nothing to do with Tracy.

Glance back at all the successful teams over the past 5 years in the NBA. The bench is a key. You can't win without structuring it properly. You need good starters, but that bench is just as important. Look at the players the Magic have traded away and the one's they have now around Tmac. They have good players, its just not the right group of players they need to win. The structure is the problem. This is the GM's fault not the players themselves. Gooden and Howard are virtually the same type of player, why have both? Strickland is one of the best assist men in NBA history, can you argue that he is not a good player? What about Giricek and Bogans? Two good young wingplayers that have the potential be be great role players. The Magic's woes are the same thing I've watched for years in DC with Abe Polin. You've got a guy in charge who doesn't know how to build a winning team. This is not the teams fault. It's his fault. Take a look at all the now great players the Wizards used to have: Webber, Rasheed, Ben Wallace(Orlando dumped him too), etc, etc..... there are so many. I'm not saying the Magic's players will go elsewhere and have the same success these guys have, but they surely did not have any success with a GM who could build the team the way it should be built.

Quote:

You think Philly's team, or Iverson's supporting cast actually, is on par with Orlando's? You are nuts. They've got a near All-Star caliber player in Glenn Robinson. They've still got McKie and Snow, who are both savvy veterans and very good defensive players. Dalembert is becoming a defensive force in the middle. If correct me if I am wrong, but AI isn't doing too much lately .. I believe they have lost 8 out of their last 10 ... You just want to hate on Tmac so badly.

Glenn Robinson is no longer an allstar caliber player.
Check the numbers, they don't lie. His time in Atlanta the Hawks record without him was much better than with him, just as the 6ers record without Glenn is much better than with him. Overall both teams had a 60%+ winning percentage without Glenn, and a 35%- with him. It's funny how players can live off their reputation, instead of having to earn credibility. Glenn Robinson has not accomplished anything in his NBA career. And he has certainly been on a downhill spiral over the past 4 years.

And BTW, I'm not hating on Tmac, I'm hating on the GM.
I swear Tmac fans are so sensitive. Sensitive thugs yall all need hugs.

**JNice** · 02-12-2004, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by IV!

I see....

You changed the argument. What we were originally debating was whether the team's supporting cast was the problem or whether it was the GM? This has nothing to do with Tracy.

Glance back at all the successful teams over the past 5 years in the NBA. The bench is a key. You can't win without structuring it properly. You need good starters, but that bench is just as important. Look at the players the Magic have traded away and the one's they have now around Tmac. They have good players, its just not the right group of players they need to win. The structure is the problem. This is the GM's fault not the players themselves. Gooden and Howard are virtually the same type of player, why have both? Strickland is one of the best assist men in NBA history, can you argue that he is not a good player? What about Giricek and Bogans? Two good young wingplayers that have the potential be be great role players. The Magic's woes are the same thing I've watched for years in DC with Abe Polin. You've got a guy in charge who doesn't know how to build a winning team. This is not the teams fault. It's his fault. Take a look at all the now great players the Wizards used to have: Webber, Rasheed, Ben Wallace(Orlando dumped him too), etc, etc..... there are so many. I'm not saying the Magic's players will go elsewhere and have the same success these guys have, but they surely did not have any success with a GM who could build the team the way it should be built.

Well, I agree for the most part. I think the biggest problem with Orlando is everyone expected too much out of the guys they got. Tyronne Lue is playing about as good as he can, but is equal to a 2nd or 3rd string point, but they expected him to be a starter. He is a set shooting PG that doesnt do much else, although his defense because of his defense against AI was WAY overrated. Howard started the season very poorly, which is his fault, but he is doing now what he has always done ... a decent scoring PF who grabs some meaningless rebounds and doesnt play much D. I thought Howard would be able to handle playing C in the East, but I didnt realize how un-athletic he is.

Either way, the team has not been put together well. Howard coming in has killed Gooden's game and forced him or Howard to play out of position. Their pick of Reece Gaines has been a major bust to this point. Bogans is a decent player, but shouldnt be a starting caliber player. Zaza has potential, but he is going to need a couple years and now he is starting. DeClerq does the best he can, which isnt much, but he is also forced to start even though he should be a 8th or 9th man. Strickland has done about as well as he can for his age. Britton Johnson starting the season at SF? Huh?

Two guys that have been big disappointments are Giricek and Hunter. No excuses for those guys.

I dont fault the GM for Hill's signing, but it has killed this team.

It is scary watching this team, because not only are they bad, the only guys that look like they will/could improve in the future are Tmac, Gooden, Zaza, and Bogans. And Bogans at best will be a decent starter, but nothing more.