TerrierNation

One of the hurdles is they don't have football. And if the PL is looking at add a non-football playing school in CT, then they should go with Fairfield. With all due respect to Q, which is definitely on the upswing, Fairfield is a better add.

FredDavenport

Hmmm.....

Looks like others also think Quinnipiac is very supportive of BBall and their other sports and facilities.

Take a look at this:

http://nycbuckets.com/2012/07/quinni...tball-program/

BU_Hoops

Fairfield or Quin don't really do it for me. I would take Fairfield over Quin but both are very regional schools - Who really outside of CT/NE has heard of these 2 schools?

With BU now part of the PL, football schol, and recent success of the PL in MBball, I am holding out hope that Fordham or William and Mary can be lured in.

If not, then VMI.

RichH2

VMI is the choice of many as a full member. Logical connection with A snd N. From what I see on Ram board not likely they will return in Bball unless we can really improve play. CJ was a fluke. Issue will be whetner PL can improve its level of play. Or will iy sink back to its old level of one or two decent teams

TerrierNation

Fairfield's basketball program is already making waves and would probably be one of the three best in the conference, if not the best. They've just missed NCAA tournaments, but had quality teams that would have received 13, 14 seeds in the dance the last three years. The location is ideal for BU connecting New England and mid-Atlantic and they are a well respected school in the region.

Why would a BU fan be interested in adding VMI? Full disclosure...are you from Virginia or something? I can certainly see W&M or Fordham, but VMI is going to have below average teams most years and BU teams would need to get on a plane, fly to Richmond and then drive three hours. If Mike Lynch advocates for VMI over Fairfield he should be immediately fired. Remember, football is important to the PL, but not to BU. So Fairfield may be ruled out by the league because it does not have football. But certainly not by BU if we had to pick an ideal addition. Our focus should be quality of basketball, lacrosse, location ($$ for travel) and the general reputation of the school.

iamsirjoshua

Agreed that Fairfield would be a good add as they're less regional than people think. I mean, how many people (and we're talking general college bball watching populace, not the demographic of people that attended elite colleges) know of schools like Lehigh, Lafayette, or Bucknell outside of PA? Q has a few years of catching up to do to Fairfield in that respect. Full disclosure, I'm a DC transplant by way of Connecticut, so I like to think I have a decent handle on the Mid-Atlantic and New England areas, although it probably pales next to many others on this board. Regardless, NE and the Mid-Atlantic is where most of PL schools' recruiting takes place (both for athletics and general student bodies), so Fairfield would work.

As for BU influencing PL expansion, that will have a lot to do with how quickly the PL moves. Mike Lynch won't have a seat at the PL table for another year, although I'm sure it's being kept in mind now that he will. On the other hand, I am sure the current PL members did not invite BU with the intention that they'd have any significant power to shoot down their football aspirations (and this is coming from an alumnus of a non-football PL school, so I have no dog in that race). I certainly hope that if further PL expansion takes a few years, BU would be understanding of the needs of current members, lest it create a situation that splits the conference apart. One big reason BU joined is the stability of the conference compared to others at its level, so I am sure that's a big consideration as well. I can imagine when BU was invited it was with the knowledge that an expansion to 10 members was likely, and the 10th member would likely have football. I am certainly not claiming BU will purposefully try to disrupt the conference or anything like that, but on the AE board I've read quite a few posts from bitter AE fans claiming that at various points BU was reason the AE never sponsored hockey or football. I am sure there were plenty of reasons for that and BU makes a nice scapegoat now that they're leaving (and everyone else who might have played a part left years ago). That's getting a bit off-topic though. My original point was that I'm not sure how much influence BU would have over a 10th member - I see HC, LU, LC, CU, and "other" BU pushing strongly for a football-playing member and everyone going else going along with it because that's what the conference as a whole needs.

__________________
All hail the mighty AU Eagles

TerrierNation

Agree on all points. I don't think BU would have any real power on this and the next move should involve football if that is what is best for the conference.

I was merely talking about it in terms of what would be best for BU...hypothetical message board talk kind of thing. And VMI is probably dead last on any list of plausible candidates in terms of how BU should perceive potential expansion candidates. They simply won't have the same quality of teams, travel is a bear and the league already has Army and Navy. Kind of redundant in that regard, although they do have a great reputation. Just doesn't make sense though from a BU perspective.

iamsirjoshua

Agreed on VMI, and DC is a whole lot closer to Lexington, VA than Boston is. Army and Navy are already conference outliers in a lot of regards, and while I appreciate having them in the conference, I don't see what VMI brings to the table minus football. Outside of football most of their teams would fall near the bottom of the league (and honestly I don't know if their football team is good, just that it exists), and travel would be a pain for just about everyone but AU and Navy. It could create rivalries for Army/Navy, but certainly not in football, and I don't see why they'd be going out of their way to play VMI - it's not quite at the same level in terms of military-related institutions as West Point, the Naval Academy, the Air Force Academy, or even Coast Guard, and we're certainly not adding a team in Colorado and Coast Guard isn't moving to D1. That's just my two cents though, and I am not well-attuned to the intricacies of FCS football so I might be missing a key point in their value to the conference, especially in the context of who else is out there right now that fits the bill. Of course, that travel argument could be made about schools like W&M that I think we'd all be happy with, so it could all be moot. Well, it is, because it's just message board speculation, as TerrierNation said - but it's the most we have right now.

__________________
All hail the mighty AU Eagles

BU_Hoops

Not from Virginia. Grew up in CT and live in MA. I'm very familiar with both Fairfield and Quinn growing up in CT. My first wish is for Fordham or W&M. After that, I do not care much for any of the other choices to be perfectly honest - Fairfield, Quinn, Loyola, etc.
VMI was mentioned as they have football (it is going to be a requirement whether you like it or not), have good facilities, and is a real possibility.

Also mentioned the PL changing with BU joining not because BU will strong arm and get what they want, but because it is a large school, urban setting, nice facilites that has the potential to be very good every year (If BU could just build on its success instead of faltering everytime it gets good). This gives the PL a new "image" it didn't have before. It makes the PL more attractive to Fordham or W&M.

NotJuanJones

It is wonderful to see a PL Board up and running. Hopefully we can discuss issues, talk a little trash and keep it civil.

As I Am Sir Joshua knows, I'm an AU guy, through and through. And as such, I've heard and read some of the comments over the years from some of the older PL schools about our academic standing, scores, etc. And, as IASJ pointed out, we've dramatically improved academically since joining the PL. Our women's basketball team just posted the fifth-highest GPA in Division I, and our men's and women's teams had the most selections to the PL All-Academic Honor Roll this past season. I say all this to point out that I think any school that comes to the PL should and will understand that it has to raise its game if it becomes the 10th PL team.

That's why I'd argue for Fordham to be re-admitted in all sports. Someone pointed out there's no perfect solution, and that's right. But Fordham would make sense. Most importantly, bringing Fordham back satisfies the FCS requirement that certainly seems to be paramount in the eyes of many. (AU, of course, has no stake in this, but I genuinely want to do what's in the best interests of the conference going forward.)

I know many think that Fordham would never come back to the PL because of its A-10 affiliation, but I cannot imagine that the Rams and their fans would mind an exit strategy, or that the rest of the conference would mind seeing them go. Again, speaking from experience, most of AU's alumni were aghast at the idea of going "down" to the PL after playing in the CAA, but the reality was that the PL was a better fit for us than the CAA--economically and athletically. And I think Fordham's fans and administration have to know now that they will never be anything other than a doormat in the A-10. Certainly with Butler and VCU coming in, even if Temple and Charlotte are leaving, the conference isn't going to get any easier in basketball. It's hard to imagine there's much enthusiasm at Fordham for continuing to get their brains beat in. The men's basketball team has had one winning season in the 17 years Fordham has been in the A-10. In the last four years, Fordham's conference record is 5-59. Repeat: 5-59. The men's overall record over that stretch is 22-92. The women's team is only slightly better: 10-46 in A-10 play the last four years, 40-80 overall. Fordham does better in men's and women's swimming, but they haven't had a whole lot of success in many other A-10 sports.

Academically, Fordham has work to do. Its latest four-year Academic Progress Rate (APR) is 933--well below everyone else in the PL. (By comparison, Lehigh's APR was 1000 (out of a possible 1000); Bucknell 995; Holy Cross 995; Lafayette 994; BU 990; Navy 987; Colgate 984; Army 971; AU 970.) Fordham does a little better in U.S. News and World Report's rankings of national universities; it is tied for 53rd nationally (ironically, with Boston U), and its six-year graduation rate of 80 percent of its students, while behind Lehigh (88 percent) and BU (84 percent), is higher than AU's 79 percent. The smaller PL schools' grad rates, which USNWR scored over a four-year period, are higher as well: Holy Cross (90 percent), Bucknell (89), Navy (88), Lafayette (87), and Colgate and Army (83 each), though I don't know if those are apples to apples comparisons. Fordham does have a much higher enrollment than most PL schools (15,000/8,200 undergrad), though that's still smaller than BU (32,000).

Fordham's SAT score average of 1710-2010 ranks 60th in the country among research universities, behind Lehigh (31st) but ahead of AU (75th) and BU (77th). Among liberal arts schools, Bucknell is 13th nationally (with an average of 1845-2100), Colgate 16th, Lafayette 35th. Its endowment as of 2010 was $371 million, which would be the lowest in the PL.

I'm not as sold on the idea that Fordham's location in New York would do much for our media footprint; I doubt there will be a groundswell of coverage by the local papers or TV stations. But geographically, New York is a relatively central location for most of the other PL schools. We're all about an hour's flight away, or, at worst, a 3-5 hour bus ride. That would make a lot more sense--and, I imagine, cost a lot less fuel--than some of the other suggestions. Certainly would be a nice line coming south from Boston through NYC to Philly to D.C. Just my two cents.

Also happy to announce AU's gotten its first 2013 commitment--Jalen Rhea, a 6-2 guard out of New Albany, Ohio. Knew you were holding your breath in rapt anticipation.

Gate alum

Apparently, the recent 2012 P.L. Football Media Day rehashed the interrelated issues of fb schollies, schedulng and expansion.
A hypothetcal "model" future P.L. fb schedule would include 8 P.L. games, two Ivies and one FBS "money game." That implies two additional fb schools, assuming all current schools remain. Keep in mind that while fb schollies are being phased in, the P.L. could be changing its profile vis-a-vis potential expansion candidates. But, it's still a finite list of expansion prospects. Also, the increase in FCS playoff teams to 24 from 20 could make the P.L. a two-bid league.
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/brad...lie_ahead.html

RichH2

PL wants 8 for FB and 10 for Bball. Coaches seem to like an additional Fb to leave 3 OOC games

Gate alum

Very thorough post by NotJuanJones ( # 85 above ) regarding Fordham. I agree that on paper Fordham would be the easiest solution for the 10th full member for the P.L.. ( But that still leaves open the 1-2 fb only members that are needed. ) And, I do like the addition of another large urban university to the P.L. mix. Like B.U., their relationships with the smaller P.L. schools and the Service Academies go way back. And New York is a boon for giving P.L. alums a chance to see their teams. Although the A-10 has greater visibility in bball, you wonder whether the perception of Fordham as a doormat undermines the value of the publicity ? Given that Fordham has made the same mistake in their over-ambitious scheduling of FBS fb games, it's obvious something is out-of-sync in their athletic strategy. Perhaps they'll be blessed with a new A.D. who can straighten things out ? I doubt if anyone in the P.L. wouldn't welcome the Rams back with open arms. But, until bball coach Pecora's contract runs out acompanied by little additional progress, it's going to be hard for them to chart a new course. Maybe 4-5 years down the road ? For the 10th all-sport member and addl. fb members, I think the P.L. should hold out for the best opportunities. I think the P.L., as a Conference will avoid being embarassed by a poor decision like the one with which Fordham is currently saddled. That's the benefit of having some fundamental values guiding your decision-making process.

NortheastPLFan

Great case laid out above for Fordham. I'd love to see them rejoin, but I just don't see it happening. They could never win an A-10 championship and stand to make more money in that conference than by rejoining the PL. Without knowing all of the dollars and cents of it, on the surface it just doesn't look like a smart move for them.

If it hasn't happened by now, we won't hear anything about more football members or a 10th full member until next spring at the earliest.

Majestic Mapp

Loyola is number ten!

http://www.patriotleague.org/genrel/082912aaa.html