Blakely4Prez

Saw this article - http://articles.mcall.com/2012-06-23...ton-university -

What are some candidates for that 10th member if the PL is so inclined to do so? Obviously with the Patriot being one small step below the IVY in terms of academics, the pool of candidates is definitely smaller than that of CAA/AE expansion candidates.

TerrierNation

UNH and UVM would seem to be the only candidates in New England. People have definitely mentioned W&M. Villanova and Richmond as affiliates may make some sense, but who knows? I would love to see a school a little more like BU like a Drexel, but it's probably unlikely for a bunch of reasons. I don't know. I think it gets more interesting if the CAA further alienates northern members.

iamsirjoshua

Certainly after the BU announcement anything is possible, since in every PL expansion discussion prior to June 15th I don't think BU was ever mentioned. However, I'm also of the opinion that one of the more "expected" candidates might be more likely this time around.

William and Mary/Richmond are at the top of everyone's wish list, although the chances of either doing so are pretty slim.

UVM/UNH would be good candidates in my opinion, however I have a hard time seeing a large public flagship meshing well with a conference composed of primarily smaller private institutions (although like I said, anything is possible). Two weeks ago BU would have thought to have been a long shot due to its size as well.

More likely candidates that I have seen discussed for a while include Loyola (MD) and Fairfield. Both are about the right size and strong academically, play plenty of PL sports (except for football, which may be an issue), and are geographically in the right areas. The problems with them are, as I mentioned, the lack of football, as well as being on the smaller side endowment-wise, which many think would be a barrier, but I think they match up well otherwise. Both also bring strong lacrosse programs (Loyola especially), which would bolster the PL there. Quick aside, I would love for AU to start a men's lacrosse program to join BU and the rest of the PL, but that's an entirely different post.

A number of other, less likely names have been thrown around as well, but I think those are the best bets there. We'll just have to wait and see. There are definitely some good options though that, if they worked out, would make the league stronger, much as I think BU will.

__________________
All hail the mighty AU Eagles

TerrierNation

Thanks for the information. Fairfield and/or Loyola would be awesome IMO. I think that would place Patriot League hoops firmly ahead of the MAAC, AE, and NEC, although I would argue it is already ahead of the latter two. Fairfield is in a great geographic location as well sort of bridging between New England and the mid-Atlantic. Their hoops is definitely on the upswing as well

iamsirjoshua

Fairfield would be a great, especially considering the strength of their hoops program. Geographically they'd make another strong northeastern outpost and easier travel for HC/BU, along with another school to hit up on a road trip for the PA/MD/DC schools. Loyola would similarly add another local school for AU and Navy, and their lacrosse would be a huge boon the league. Unfortunately we could only potentially have 1 of the 2, assuming the PL wants to stay at 10, which I'd prefer over a 12 or 14-team megaconference (which seems to be the trend these days, at least for the high majors).

__________________
All hail the mighty AU Eagles

Gate alum

The "wishlists" of expansion candidates on this and other P.L.-related boards leaves me feeling there's little thought on priority attributes of expansion choices that can best help the League.
From a practical stand point, let me suggest expanding Fordham to full membership as top priority and Villanova to preferably full membership ( or football only ) as the second priority. My reasoning is that these two can fulfill one of three objectives that I have for Patriot League athletics: institutional visibility. Added to existing full and f.b. members, these choices provide major ( media ) market presence in Boston-New York-Philadelphis-Baltimore-Washington. This provides broad alumni and media access. As a former-student athlete, I believe first and foremost that athletics provides unparalleled learning experiences to complement the great educations provided by our P.L. institutions. Adding spirit to our school communities is another great benefit. But, fulfilling athletics role as the "front porch" of our schools can't be better served than by the visibility gained from the right expansion choices immediately ahead.

TerrierNation

Villanova has no desire to compete in the Patriot in anything other than football and even that is questionable. I think its more or less the same with Fordham at the moment. Why would they leave the A10, the best conference outside of the majors for basketball? Villanova and Richmond are somewhat feasible for football only, but I'm fairly sure that is it....at least at this point while they still make money in their respective conferences. I would think any MAAC, AE, NEC and maybe even CAA member institution would at least think about a PL offer though. I would think for all sports the pool is generally limited to those conferences unless the league decided to look south. I'm no expert and don't have any sources, but that's my impression. I can't imagine Fordham alumni and leadership supporting a move down for less money while they pay their coaching staff a higher salary. Just wouldn't make sense now.

Gate alum

I'm merely sharing a strategy that will maximize visibility ( for the Patriot League itself and P.L. member institutions ) that provide uni-dimensional criteria for choosing expansion candidates. Specifically, maximizing a presence within the northeastern urban sprawl ( Boston-New York-Philadelphis-Baltimore-Washington. ) will best achieve this. This is good for existing alumni bases of all existing and prospective member institutions. It might also add to the CBS Sports TV contract covering P.L. football, b-ball and lacrosse. With all due respect to other criteria for expansion candidates (i.e., the cachet of Richmond and W & M is lovely-but ephemeral, imho ), I'm focussing exclusively on maximizing visibility. I have no idea whether the schools that fit this strategy are interested. I'm not suggesting they currently are.

TerrierNation

Gotcha! I think Fairfield sounds like the best possible addition of any that may be feasible. That is purely from a BU perspective though without thought about football. Unfortunately for BU, football is important and Fairfield may not even be interested!

PatriotBBall

I am an alumni of one of the Patriot League schools and I'd like to share my thoughts about a 10th member and PL expansion.

One of my favorite things about going to Patriot League games is that these schools compete for many of the same students. Colgate, Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, and Holy Cross share many applicants and they are similiar types of schools. Most freshman at any of the above schools are familiar with the other patriot league institutions, have friends attending them, and respect them because they considered attending them. Army and Navy bring greater national focus to the PL and both of these schools are extremely rigorous and well respected.

American is a bit of outlier in the PL but has some strong teams and is located in a major media market. I don't think American is a great fit in the PL but its not bad either.

Similarly BU was a surprising addition but I'm not opposed to it. Its bringing some strong teams, academics that are probably stronger than AU and comparable to the others, and a second team in the North East.

At this point I would definitely disagree with extending an offer to Loyola or Fairfeild. Although they bring some strong teams (but no Football!!!) I don't think their academics can cut it. They are solid schools but not too many students at Fairfeild could have gotten into Lehigh or Bucknell. These school are a clear step below academically and it weakens the brand of the PL. UV and UNH are state schools-nothing else to say there.
Drexel also does not fit the Patriot at all due to academics.

The PL does not NEED to expand. Any expansion that includes one of the schools above would be a major mistake and the PL would start to lose what makes it unique- the focus on academics.

The only schools that have been mentioned that I could see fitting in are Richmond, Bill and Mary, Furman, and GW (Maybee).

PatriotBBall

It was even said above that the PL is a "small step below the IVY" in terms of academics. If this is the case, then why are we starting to consider schools that are a small step above average?

Gate alum

There is research showing that the added exposure that comes from success in athletics adds to the applicant pool and yield of colleges and universities. Hence, the selectivity of institutions may be impacted by this. The original five members of the predecessor of the P.L., along with the Hoyas, Mids and Blackknights provide enough academic distinction to make the P.L. unique. The B.U.'s, Fordhams, Villanov's and Americans of the population dense Northeast corridor will not dilute this distinction. ( Davidson maintains its distinction while being a member of Socon. ) But the Northeast metropolita sprawl will mightily increase the visibility of the Patriot League and its member institutions. This will provide more exposure to alumni, prospective students and possibly increase the contract with CBS Sports by integrating these media markets into the P.L. fold. A "small step above average" is a misnomer for these bigger institutions. More importantly, there's a symbiotic relationship between these two types of institutions, based on the powers of "association" on the one hand and "crtitcal mass" on the other. The benefit of increased critical mass in the right places in the dense Northeast is increased selectivity for our beloved institutions. A "small step above average" changes by association with the older-smaller-less urban P.L. institutions. Institutional selectivity is enhanced by visibilty. Our mass culture dictates that selectivity is a function of others perceptions of an institution in addition to an institutions objective substantive academic accomplishments.

PatriotBBall

My last post was a bit of an excessive exageration. I think Loyola, Fairfeild, and Drexel are all very good academic schools. I just think they are a step below the current schools and I'd rather the Patriot League keeps its current pedigree as the 2nd best academic conference.

Gate_Alum: I agree that increasing the exposure of the league would have some positive influence on the member schools which could be measured by enhanced selectivity. This has been proven time and time again. Each year the cinderella basketball teams receive newfound interest from potential applicants.

However, I think there is something to be said for the original (and current?) mission of the PL: a league that strives to graduate top students who also happen to be great atheletes. Each new member which may not share this dedication definitely takes away from the leagues mission and the leagues niche. The patriot league is regarded as a great academic league not because it has great academic schools but because all of the schools top to bottom have great academics. The PL is great element of these schools which makes them unique places to go to school. In the long run I believe it is in the PLs interest to maintain this high academic standard while continuing to progress in sports that can bring the league and institutions great exposure such as BBall and Lax.

BU_Hoops

My choices without regard to whether they would come to the PL are:

1) William and Mary
2) Drexel
3) Hofstra
4) Fordham


Now that BU is in the fold, it would be nice if the 10th member was closer in size to BU but still keeping to good academics.

Other more realistic choices could include VMI, The Citadel, Hampton, Fairfield, Loyola (MD).

BucBisonAtLarge

There is an expectation that an all-sports member will be added to facilitate scheduling for the regular season, and at least one football playing member, in order to balance interests. I think Villanova or W&M only come in football, and that only if there is some unlikely meltdown of the CAA football. Richmond is not leaving the A-10, and there was an alumni revolt over their initial involvement with the PL, back when they were aspiring to hang in the FCS.

Fordham would be the most elegant solution. Barring their forsaking of the A-10, then, if the AI banding can somehow be worked out, maybe using out-of-state admission standards, then UVM, UNH and Maine are all possibilities.