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**Pinball** · 03-04-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mattsanity!

You're not clever at all. I was saying he's the best 2 guard since Michael Jordan.

I know what you were saying.

XStitchesX · 03-04-2004, 02:27 PM

Doesn't really surprise me even though he is already one of the worse shooters in nba history he might beat Bob Cousy for the worse ever.

KokoTheMonkey · 03-04-2004, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by futuristxen!

Weekly basis? He complained about his teammates playing with no heart once. And he was absolutely right. It's calling a spade a spade. And they all know it. He has never been one to disrespect his teammates and talk poorly about them, especially to the media. That was a big deal for him to come out like that. Don't get it twisted like that's what he is always doing. His teammates as well as the rest of the players in the league respect Iverson. The only people who make an issue out of the few times he has missed a practice are news hounds with an agenda.

I don't know why some in the media want so badly to classify him as dumb, lazy and having an attitude. Where on earth would they ever come up with those attributes? What possible stereotype could they possibly be trying to play to? I don't know.

I would love to see this guy call Iverson a wimp or a sissy to his face. It's fun to talk tough over the internet. But he would never say that to Iverson's face. Hell...he would never say it to anyone in Philly.

Obviously, "a weekly basis" was just an exaggeration. If the guy complained on a weekly basis, everybody would hate him.

Now, as far as him criticizing his teammates, I don't have a problem with it except....is he perfect? He's by far the best thing on that team right now, but he has his faults too, and you don't see or hear his teammates trashing him all the time. The biggest problem I have with Iverson complaining about his teammates is that the guy misses practices and games for what? Is the team so bad without him that he has a legitimate reason to miss a game? Iverson is one tough SOB, but the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else publicly. Even if it isn't Iverson's fault for the team's bad play, he should either suck it up and not say anything, or publicly say what HE needs to do to help the team win. Again, Iverson is not without his faults, but again, he's not the reason the team is struggling.

To me, criticizing your teammates, even rightfully so, loses credibility when you don't even show up for practice and games yourself. He expects his teammates to sacrifice themselves for the team, but is missing practices and games non-excused considered sacrificing yourself for the team? I mean, he doesn't show up for practices, so he gets fined, then he whines about how he is being treated. How are you treating your teammates and the franchise by not even showing up for practice, and not even showing up to support your teammates at a game? I just think there is a lot of double-standards for the guy. He's a very good player, and he is seemingly a one-man-team, but criticizing your teammates and coaches publicly, and then not showing up for practice and a game just isn't good for the team.

**Minstrel** · 03-04-2004, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by futuristxen!

That's such a terrible article. I couldn't even read it all the way through. Lines like "Allen Iverson is a sissy" tend to lose one his credibilty as a proffessional.

Those who take offense to him calling Iverson a "sissy" seem to have not understood what he was saying.

He agreed that Iverson was physically tough. His "sissy" comment had nothing to do with Iverson's ability to play with pain.

His point was that Iverson is willing to be a tough guy in front of cameras, when he will clearly get great adulation for it, but he doesn't do much, off-stage, to bring the team together...he's not even willing to call up his head coach when he's going to skip something.

And what relevance is there to whether he would say it to Iverson's face? Unless you can physically beat up the other person, you can't hold a negative opinion about them? Whether he's right about Iverson is not relevant to whether he'd say it to Iverson's face.

Iverson has such a following on this site that he's almost held in such regard that he cann't be criticized in any way. I guess his (relative) tinyness and willingness to play hurt causes people to feel protective of him as well as to love him.

I like Ivy. I think it's great that he plays with such guts, in a big man's game. I don't agree with the tone of the article, which is too harsh.

But it's perfectly valid to note that Iverson seems to be a fairly immature fellow. Not calling his head coach, being willing to skip practices, making homophobic raps, being unable to work with any other scoring threats (is it pure coincidence that every scoring threat put alongside Iverson ends up failing as an experiments? Maybe there's a reason, related to Iverson, that he never has any talent around him).

I'll continue to enjoy watching him as a player, and continue to admire him as a gusty individual, but I still don't believe he's a great franchise player. Some of that is not his fault (his size), but some of it is.

futuristxen · 03-04-2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KokoTheMonkey!

Obviously, "a weekly basis" was just an exaggeration. If the guy complained on a weekly basis, everybody would hate him.

Now, as far as him criticizing his teammates, I don't have a problem with it except....is he perfect? He's by far the best thing on that team right now, but he has his faults too, and you don't see or hear his teammates trashing him all the time. The biggest problem I have with Iverson complaining about his teammates is that the guy misses practices and games for what? Is the team so bad without him that he has a legitimate reason to miss a game? Iverson is one tough SOB, but the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else publicly. Even if it isn't Iverson's fault for the team's bad play, he should either suck it up and not say anything, or publicly say what HE needs to do to help the team win. Again, Iverson is not without his faults, but again, he's not the reason the team is struggling.

To me, criticizing your teammates, even rightfully so, loses credibility when you don't even show up for practice and games yourself. He expects his teammates to sacrifice themselves for the team, but is missing practices and games non-excused considered sacrificing yourself for the team? I mean, he doesn't show up for practices, so he gets fined, then he whines about how he is being treated. How are you treating your teammates and the franchise by not even showing up for practice, and not even showing up to support your teammates at a game? I just think there is a lot of double-standards for the guy. He's a very good player, and he is seemingly a one-man-team, but criticizing your teammates and coaches publicly, and then not showing up for practice and a game just aren't good for the team.

After he made his comments I believe he went out and hung up a 40 point 10+ assist game. So he's doing what he can for the team.

Have you had the misfortune of watching the Sixers this season? The problems that Iverson was referring to had been festering for awhile. And he had tried the other avenue. I think you are overstating his missing a practice and a game for health reasons with regards to it casting aspersions on his ability to be a leader for the team.

And not going to the game, it's not like he was pulling a Vince Carter and going to a Nelly concert. It was a health issue.(Some sort of stomach problem, and again, have you watched the Sixers? Having to sit on the bench and watch them would only aggravate any stomach problems Iverson was having.)

And yes there are double-standards. There are always double-standards for every superstar ever. That's the breaks. It's nothing new. But with regards to Iverson the media would like us to think it's new. I don't think you even want to find out how much someone like Wilt Chamberlain went to practice.

But again. The practice problems are overblown. He's not consistently missing them.

We'll see what happens in Philly. I think Chris Ford has made a bad situation even worse. And for the situation being that bad in the first place I blame Glen Robinson, and amazingly Aaron Mckie.

KokoTheMonkey · 03-04-2004, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by futuristxen!

After he made his comments I believe he went out and hung up a 40 point 10+ assist game. So he's doing what he can for the team.

Have you had the misfortune of watching the Sixers this season? The problems that Iverson was referring to had been festering for awhile. And he had tried the other avenue. I think you are overstating his missing a practice and a game for health reasons with regards to it casting aspersions on his ability to be a leader for the team.

And not going to the game, it's not like he was pulling a Vince Carter and going to a Nelly concert. It was a health issue.(Some sort of stomach problem, and again, have you watched the Sixers? Having to sit on the bench and watch them would only aggravate any stomach problems Iverson was having.)

And yes there are double-standards. There are always double-standards for every superstar ever. That's the breaks. It's nothing new. But with regards to Iverson the media would like us to think it's new. I don't think you even want to find out how much someone like Wilt Chamberlain went to practice.

But again. The practice problems are overblown. He's not consistently missing them.

We'll see what happens in Philly. I think Chris Ford has made a bad situation even worse. And for the situation being that bad in the first place I blame Glen Robinson, and amazingly Aaron Mckie.

Practice? We're talking 'bout practice? (Sorry, I had to throw in this corny jab at AI)

I suppose I'm overreacting to missing practices or one game, but I only mentioned it in regards of him calling out his teammates for not having heart. To me, if you step out in front of the media and criticize your teammates, then the least you can do is show up for practice. Heart isn't only displayed in the actual games, it is also displayed in practice. I'm not trying to say that because he missed a practice or a game, he is not a leader, since I don't know what goes on in closed doors in the 76ers locker room.

And yes, I have had the "pleasure" of watching the 76ers play this season, since they do play every other day on national TV. Yes, it's pitiful watching Iverson vs another team, but whining publicly can only hurt the situation, since it seems none of his teammates have responded in a positive way to his comments.

futuristxen · 03-04-2004, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Minstrel!

Those who take offense to him calling Iverson a "sissy" seem to have not understood what he was saying.

He agreed that Iverson was physically tough. His "sissy" comment had nothing to do with Iverson's ability to play with pain.

His point was that Iverson is willing to be a tough guy in front of cameras, when he will clearly get great adulation for it, but he doesn't do much, off-stage, to bring the team together...he's not even willing to call up his head coach when he's going to skip something.

And what relevance is there to whether he would say it to Iverson's face? Unless you can physically beat up the other person, you can't hold a negative opinion about them? Whether he's right about Iverson is not relevant to whether he'd say it to Iverson's face.

Iverson has such a following on this site that he's almost held in such regard that he cann't be criticized in any way. I guess his (relative) tinyness and willingness to play hurt causes people to feel protective of him as well as to love him.

I like Ivy. I think it's great that he plays with such guts, in a big man's game. I don't agree with the tone of the article, which is too harsh.

But it's perfectly valid to note that Iverson seems to be a fairly immature fellow. Not calling his head coach, being willing to skip practices, making homophobic raps, being unable to work with any other scoring threats (is it pure coincidence that every scoring threat put alongside Iverson ends up failing as an experiments? Maybe there's a reason, related to Iverson, that he never has any talent around him).

I'll continue to enjoy watching him as a player, and continue to admire him as a gusty individual, but I still don't believe he's a great franchise player. Some of that is not his fault (his size), but some of it is.

My offense was definitely at the word choice. And I do admit to skewing his arguement a little bit because I was very offput by the writing. You're right it is a point that can be made. But to make it the way it was made was clumsy and that made me disregard the entire point. The guy is obviously both a moron(who calls people a sissy or a wimp in this day and age?) and biased against Iverson.

I think the word choice is trying to act tough, because when you say Iverson is a wimp or a sissy, regardless of the context, it is implying that he doesn't measure up to your standard of toughness/ and with the term sissy, manhood. And them's fightin' words. If the guy wants to compare dick sizes with Iverson he needs to go to the locker room and keep it out of print.

As far as Iverson not being as tough off the game floor as he is on it, I think there's two sides to every story that is spun about Iverson. One guy says Iverson didn't call Ford. Another says Iverson didn't have Fords number and he called Philly managment. And he was already upset about Ayers getting fired. Anything after that is just fallout. I think Iverson IS trying to get Ford fired. But I think Billy King IS trying to get Iverson traded. And Ford IS trying to get a job somewhere else. It's one big mess of power struggle that will only be resolved by either Iverson getting traded or Billy King being fired. Until that happens the Sixers will continue to spiral and Iverson will feel less and less inclined to play with the injuries he has played with in the past. That's the article to write. Talk about this from all sides and show it for what it is. But this biased crap, I have no time for. Iverson's been in the league long enough that I've indoctrinated myself against reading this kind of garbage. It's been the same article in one way or another since he was in high school. Until people want to see it from all angles and see the wider picture then it just doesn't intrest me. Beyond simply infuriating me.

futuristxen · 03-04-2004, 02:54 PM

And I appologize that my thoughts on this are running all over the place. I haven't really organized them and I'm kind of distracted right now. If any of that made sense, then jolly you.

futuristxen · 03-04-2004, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KokoTheMonkey!

And yes, I have had the "pleasure" of watching the 76ers play this season, since they do play every other day on national TV. Yes, it's pitiful watching Iverson vs another team, but whining publicly can only hurt the situation, since it seems none of his teammates have responded in a positive way to his comments.

I think I agree somewhat with what you're trying to say. Because it is true that generally when you air grievences it hurts more than it hurts. (See T-Mac, Kobe, Shaq...ect. No one really gets away with it).

But I don't think it really hurt any of his teammates feelings to the degree that some of T-Mac or Kobe's comments may have. I think for the most part Iverson is VERY well liked on his team and in his city. And that his teammates understood(though I don't think they listened) where he was coming from.

I don't think it really became the issue that the media thought it would be when they reported it.

As I said, the story right now, the real story, seems to be one of a power struggle within the Sixers organization.

NYKBaller · 03-04-2004, 06:42 PM

Everyone was talking about his injury not mentioning that the knicks played good D on him. He got hit more times than George W. Bush looked up a word in the dictionary.

futuristxen · 03-04-2004, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NYKBaller!
Everyone was talking about his injury not mentioning that the knicks played good D on him. He got hit more times than George W. Bush looked up a word in the dictionary.

I mentioned it somewhere.

**HKF** · 03-04-2004, 08:18 PM

I know they lost tonight, but consider me shutting up about AI.

32 points, 9 assists and 4 rebounds.

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