[Seuss]

GM/Coach has one day to get his gameplan up. Here's a gameplan template.

Offensive Plan:
Defensive Plan:
Overall Focus:

#4 Memphis Grizzlies:

PG: Alvin Robertson
SG: Eddie Jones
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Charles Oakley
C: David Robinson

BENCH: Rick Mahorn, Rodney McCray, Fast Eddie Johnson, Anthony Mason, Richard Hamilton

#5 Los Angeles Clippers:

PG: Tony Parker
SG: Joe Dumars
SF: LeBron James
PF: Rasheed Wallace
CE: Nate Thurmond

BENCH: Adrian Dantley, Manu Ginobili, Andre Miller, Brad Miller, Danny Manning

[Sharpie]

Memphis is the most unpredictable team left, IMO. Most likely the best defense in the league, but their offense relies on two very unpredictable playoff performers in Robinson and Pippen and then not much else at all. Can their opponents pressure them (Pippen and Robinson) into throwing up stinkers, which will then lead you to win extremely low scoring games? The Clippers have Nate Thurmond who can pressure Robinson, but Pippen can have a field day against LeBron's defense and pressure LeBron into stinkers.

This series will obviously be low scoring and will depend on the stars taking over at the end, right now, even though Robinson and Pippen are shaky, I'll probably give them the advantage, unless Dumars and Manu take over.

[bootstrenf]

first off, i just want to state that nate thurmond averaged around 3 blocks per game when he was 32 and on the decline...too bad the league didn't record blocks and steals during his prime...will you guys concede around 4-4.5 blocks per game for thurmond during his prime??? also, i want to point out that thurmond recorded the first ever quad double in league history...also, during his prime, he damn near averaged 44mpg...

a PER of 19.0 just does not do him justice:

Some basketball observers have suggested that the 6-11 Thurmond provided the best mix of offense and defense in basketball history. Many say that his defense was better than Chamberlain's, and that his offense was better than Bill Russell's. With quickness and long hands, a smooth outside shooting touch, tenacious rebounding, classic shotblocking ability, and a total team attitude, Thurmond offered a perfectly balanced package.

link

OFFENSIVE PLAN:

well, my offense will be dictated by the drive and dish...parker, lebron, ginobili are all exceptional at getting to the rim whenever they please, and all three are very good at dishing to the open man once the defense collapses into the paint, or finishing if the defense doesn't rotate...oakley and robinson are beasts in the paint, but that's why i picked someone like rasheed as my pf....with his long range capabilities, he can pull oakley, or whomever, out of the paint to leave robinson as the sole shotblocker...once that happens, i think that parker and lebron are both good enough to blow by their man to get in to the paint...once the ball is in the paint, i think that my team is too good at finishing to stop consistently...


i think our centers match up pretty well, but once you get into the second rotations, i think my team has the advantage...miller is a great passing center who can hit the outside shot, and also rebounds pretty well...then i have manning to back up the pf position and many don't realize this, but the dude was extremely versatile himself:

manning's prime numbers were right around 20ppg | 8rpg | 4.5apg | 2bpg | 2spg | 58%fg....kind of like garnett-lite...

manu will play a huge role in this series, because although he is slated to be my 6th man, he will definitely get starter minutes...the defensive prowess of dumars would be wasted on eddie jones, and manu would provide more offense...although his defense isn't as great as dumar's, his d would not be needed for a matchup with eddie...

i think that the depth of the clippers would win out...dre miller: a superb on ball defender and solid distributor who can run the fastbreak or halfcourt sets equally well...dantley, one of the best pure scorers of all time, ginobili who can score, play D, one of the highest bball iq's i've ever seen, range, handles, passing, and unselfish enough to come off the bench, miller as one of the better outside shooting/passing centers, and danny manning as a facillitator, do it all type player...

i think that the series will come down to pippen vs. lebron...the thing is, i truly don't know how that would play out in real life...pippen was an athletic monster in his prime, but then again, so is bron(who has yet to reach his prime)...lebron totally destroyed tayshaun prince in the ecf's this year offensively and defensively and with a bit more progression, i don't think that it would be possible to guard lebron one on one...not even the great pipen could do that(i think)...what it would come down to is simply point differetial between the two, and i just think bron would be able to create more points for the clippers than he would give up against pippen...and then to tire pippen, we could throw all of our scorers at him...manu, dantley, lebron...

offensively, i think that my team is too versatile to shut down...nice scoring bigmen in rasheed, thurmond, manning, miller....great ball handling almost everywhere you look...great passing...and my team poses a lot of matchup problems...lebron is the obvious one...too strong to guard with small quick players, too quick to guard with strong big players....rasheed and brad miller are bigs that will hit the 3pt shot and pull the opposition's bigs from the paint so that my slashers can get to the rim....and both are also adept at scoring inside...manning, a truly underrated facilitator who can run the offense, although he doesn't need to...long range shooting is covered by manu, dumars, rasheed...parker also showed that he could hit the 3 when neccessary as with lebron...and pure scoring with dantley, lebron(when he wants to), parker can go on binges....

i think that my team is just balanced so well...

DEFENSIVE PLAN:

you build a great defense by going inside-out...i.e., you need a great defensive center...i have that in nate thurmond...don't really know what else to say about him...

rebounding...besides nate thurmond, no one on my team has really gaudy rebounding numbers like many other teams...but my team is still good enough on the boards...nate averaged 20+ rebounds per game in his prime year and rasheed is a good rebounder, but his nemubers were deflated because he was the primary post defender on his team...lebron is a great rebounder for his position, and manu also can rebound well for a two guard...manning was a decent rebounder if you consider that he was an inside out player who didn't spend all his time on the block...miller, despite the fact that he was a shooter, stil averaged around 10 boards per game...don't really know what else to say about that...

basically, my team will play extremely active defense and try to get as many steals as possible, and with the amount of passers on my team, the steals should lead to easy buckets as my wingmen can run the floor extremely well...in thurmond i have the prototypical defensive center, and wallace is a great on ball post defender who doesn't really block many shots, but alters them through his positioning and natural length...wallace also is quite good at stripping the ball...parker, manu, lebron, dre miller, dumars all possess great perimeter defensive abilities, and although my team is a bit lacking in shotblocking, my overall team defense should be great...




THE BOTTOM LINE:

lots of people have brought up the mental status of rasheed, and they have a right to be concerned, but let me put those fears to rest...

rasheed, on the pistons was not as bad as people gave him credit for...the malice in the palace was more on artest/jackson/jermaine....and who kept him in check while he was a piston??? none other than my starting shooting guard, joe dumars...the ultimate lockeroom guy and team leader....and on a team full of legends, i think rasheed would keep his teeth together...

i allude to lebron a good to great defender, and many might disagree, but check out prince's off numbers for this year's ecf...lebron shut him down....many would argue that it was only one series, but i think with a great player like lebron, the performance was a glimpse into his inevitable defensive progression...lebron has the physical tools and the bball iq to become a lckdown defender, adn on a team he doesn't have to ccarry on his back, i think his defensive talents might be displayed more brightly...

wow, that has to be the longest post i have ever written here on bbb...i know it's disorganized and sometime incoherent, but i'm at work and this was the best i could do...kind of like homework, but since the subject is basketball, i did not mind at all...

good luck to tkb and the grizzlies...

thanks all for reading...vote wisely...

[bootstrenf]

one thing to add...people say that dantley and rasheed were iffy players in terms of stability...


how many times did mahorn, oakley, pippen, and mason commit hard fouls that would've given them suspensions in today's nba??? a lot probably...

[tkb]

Great players adjust, but the retaliation (especially from a guy like Sheed) would give him just as many suspensions if not more. Mahorn and Oakley were good at conceling some of the cheap shots they took too.

Anyway, i'll do my writeup in about 16 hours (after work).

[BadBaronRudigor]

Two similar teams running their offenses through the three. However, Pippen and Robinson trumps LeBron and Thurmond for Pippen's defense and Robinson's offense. Memphis should win this.

[Sunsfan81]

This could be a close series. Memphis is better defensively and the Clippers are better offensively. Rasheed Wallace and Dantley have been mentioned for character issues. But what about Alvin Robertson? He had off-court issues, he's been to prison, convicted of using cocaine, and been accused of rape. Robertson was an excellent all-around player and will slow down Parker, but he's more of a SG than a PG. Clippers have a big edge with Dumars over Eddie Jones. Jones was good defensively, but Dumars was even better, and he was certainly a better scorer. The Grizzlies already have great defensive with Robertson and Pippen, might as well start Hamilton who's a better scorer than Jones. But then that would remove their best scoring option off the bench. The Clippers guards have both won Finals MVPs.

In basketball a great defensive player does not shutdown a great offensive player. He can make it harder on him, prevent him from scoring a ton of points, and will probably hold him a bit below his average, but the great scorer will score. And Lebron unless he has an off night, will score more than 20 ppg even with Pippen on him. Wallace is a head-case, but he's better than Oakley. And David Robinson is better than Thurmond, but not by much.

The Clippers bench is better. They have Dantley a great scorer and should be a HOFer off the bench who they can use to play significant minutes in case Lebron is having an off night. They also have Ginobili, the master flopper, a very intelligent player, and a winning player. They also have a very good distributor with Andre Miller. The Grizzlies defensive mind-set continues to the bench, other than Hamilton, who's not that great of a scorer to begin with, who's going to scare you offensively off their bench?

I think the Clippers win, the Grizzlies are too one-dimensional, it's too much of a defensive team. There just aren't much scoring threats there.

[tkb]

The only non 14+ppg guy on my bench is Rick Mahorn.

These are the averages of the 4 other guys:
Johnson - 18.5 ppg on .487fg% .385 3p% (+ 4.7 apg)
Hamilton - 20.1 ppg on .491 fg% .458 3p% (+ 3.4 apg)
McCray - 14.4 ppg on .552 fg% .612 ts% (+ 5.4 apg)
Mason - 16.2 ppg on .525 fg% .585 fg% (+ 5.7 apg)

Where this nonsense about my bench not being able to score is coming from i don't know, but look at the numbers first. So i don't have a 30 ppg guy like Dantley who stalled the offense and rubbed his teammates the wrong way on my bench? Who cares? Having a 30 ppg guy on the bench is pretty much useless.

I have guys that are efficient, can shoot, can pass and are willing to pass. And on top of that i've got the team with the best chemistry and the best defense. But whatever, LeBron has more tattoos and Dantley has a higher career scoring average so the Clippers will probably get the popularity vote.

The fact of the matter is that while Rasheed is more talented than Oakley, Charles would frustrate Sheed to the point where he starts jawing with refs and gets himself thrown out. It's happened countless times during the course of his career, and it's not going to suddenly stop.

David Robinson was a better scorer, passer, ballhawk and arguably a better overall defender and a fairly comparable rebounder to Thurmond (the rebound rates we have are fairly similar). On top of that Drob holds the second greatest season ever by a center as judged by PER. The Thurmond - Robinson matchup isn't as close as some have hinted at.

Scottie Pippen is at worst a top 3 perimeter defender ever, and many rank him as the best ever. He'll force LeBron to bad games, and while LeBron takes more heat for his lack of defense than he should, Pip is still a 20-22 ppg scorer and LeBron's d isn't great. Pip would get his against him and at the same time limit LeBron's efficiency/volume somewhat.

The Clippers look more sexy on paper, but having a guy like Dantley riding the pine would never work. If you believe in teamwork, defense and efficiency, vote Memphis.

[bootstrenf]

Originally Posted by tkb

The only non 14+ppg guy on my bench is Rick Mahorn.

These are the averages of the 4 other guys:
Johnson - 18.5 ppg on .487fg% .385 3p% (+ 4.7 apg)
Hamilton - 20.1 ppg on .491 fg% .458 3p% (+ 3.4 apg)
McCray - 14.4 ppg on .552 fg% .612 ts% (+ 5.4 apg)
Mason - 16.2 ppg on .525 fg% .585 fg% (+ 5.7 apg)

Where this nonsense about my bench not being able to score is coming from i don't know, but look at the numbers first. So i don't have a 30 ppg guy like Dantley who stalled the offense and rubbed his teammates the wrong way on my bench? Who cares? Having a 30 ppg guy on the bench is pretty much useless.

I have guys that are efficient, can shoot, can pass and are willing to pass. And on top of that i've got the team with the best chemistry and the best defense. But whatever, LeBron has more tattoos and Dantley has a higher career scoring average so the Clippers will probably get the popularity vote.

The fact of the matter is that while Rasheed is more talented than Oakley, Charles would frustrate Sheed to the point where he starts jawing with refs and gets himself thrown out. It's happened countless times during the course of his career, and it's not going to suddenly stop.

David Robinson was a better scorer, passer, ballhawk and arguably a better overall defender and a fairly comparable rebounder to Thurmond (the rebound rates we have are fairly similar). On top of that Drob holds the second greatest season ever by a center as judged by PER. The Thurmond - Robinson matchup isn't as close as some have hinted at.

Scottie Pippen is at worst a top 3 perimeter defender ever, and many rank him as the best ever. He'll force LeBron to bad games, and while LeBron takes more heat for his lack of defense than he should, Pip is still a 20-22 ppg scorer and LeBron's d isn't great. Pip would get his against him and at the same time limit LeBron's efficiency/volume somewhat.

The Clippers look more sexy on paper, but having a guy like Dantley riding the pine would never work. If you believe in teamwork, defense and efficiency, vote Memphis.

you seem to mention dantley a lot, but he's not even my 6th man...that role would go to manu ginobili...dantley is a matchup guy and if there is a weak defensive sg or sf, dantley would come in with the second unit to take advantage of the matchup...

as for oakley bothering rasheed...was oakley a great perimeter defender also??? i only ask, because rasheed is on my team because he is a very dynamic pf and would be able to pull oakley out of the paint with his shooting range...also, by pulling oakley out, it will leave only robinson in the paint to guard against my penetrators in james, parker, and ginobili...all three finish very well at the rim and parker is notorious for getting a lot of points in the paint...last year, he was ranked in the top 3, no???not just for pg's, but for all players in the association...and if robinson decides to challenge the shot, all three penetrators are excellent passers...and if robinson happens to block a shot, he will be out of position to get the loose ball...and oakley can't help, because he will be dragged out to the perimeter by rasheed...

[tkb]

We have some of the best perimeter defenders around. Alvin won the DPOY and averaged 3.9 steals (the all time single season record) in the year i'm using him from. Robinson averaged 2.3 steals and 4.5 blocks. Eddie Jones averaged 2.7 steals and finished 3rd in DPOY voting and Pip also averaged 2.9 steals.

The starting lineup is filled with guys with excellent knack for the ball and very quick hands. If you put it on the floor you better dribble perfect down the floor if you want to avoid anyone getting a hand on the ball.

Tony Parker is great when he doesn't face a lot of pressure. Here he will face the greatest ballhawks ever in Alvin Robertson that will play him very agrressively. We'll be in any lane, and we're athletic enough to recover and rotate. You won't get into the paint as easily as you think, and when you do you're running into a wall in Robinson or guys rotating over. Oakley will seal off Sheed (who isn't a great rebounder to begin with) and help clean up the boards. Once the shot is off Oakley can go rebound since Sheed is unlikely to pick up a lot offensive rebounds anyway. Your outside shooting outside of Dumars isn't that great. Rasheed shoots in the low 30s from 3. As does LeBron. While Parkers efficiency is nice, he isn't a reliant 3p-shooter because he only takes one every other game (0.5 3pa/gm). When he took more of them earlier in his career he shot in the low 30s as well. I might actually zone your team a bit because of the not-too-great shooting. It's decent, but not great.

----

My team will run a triangle offense btw. We have great playmakers at almost any spot and we have some deadly mid-range shooters. The triangle will really make this team shine.

[Diophantos]

SunsFan--don't know where you're coming from with all the "Eddie Jones was a far worse scorer than Dumars, worse than Hamilton too."

Best scoring seasons for each of them:
Jones: 20.1 ppg, 0.555 TS%
Dumars: 20.4 ppg, 0.552 TS%
Hamilton: 20.1 ppg, 0.553 TS%

There all in basically the same ballpark scoring-wise. Dumars is the best ball-handler and passer of the three, Jones the best deep shooter. As far as man defense, Joe probably has an advantage over EJ, but EJ was a great defender as well, has more size and better in the passing lanes.


Other than that, I'm still mulling over this matchup. For the Clippers, I love the pairing of Sheed and Thurmond, and Lebron helps cover Sheed's rebounding deficiencies. I might be a little worried about the shooting off Lebron: If you're taking Dumars from before 92 or so, he wasn't really all that comfortable with the 3pt line yet, more of a mid-range shooter, slasher, pull-up guy. Which really leaves only Sheed as a 3pt shooter in the starting lineup and only Manu off the bench. Maybe that's enough, but it's an issue because we've seen how good defensive teams can really beat up Lebron if his perimeter guys don't hit their long jumpers. I do like Dantley off the bench--if you can get him some burn against anyone besides Pip on that roster, he could do some serious damage in limited minutes.

[bootstrenf]