View Poll Results: Which team do you feel is the best?
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Bullets
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5 |
83.33% |
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Hawks
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16.67% |
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07-14-2007, 12:21 PM
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#1 (permalink)
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Your Humble Homer, Seuss
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Inside a computer, touching gadgets
Age: 18
Posts: 9,992
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Conf. East Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #4 St. Louis Hawks
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GM/Coach has one day to get his gameplan up. Here's a gameplan template.
Offensive Plan:
Defensive Plan:
Overall Focus:
[#3] Washington Bullets Team:
PG: Walt Frazier
SG: Fat Lever
SF: Shawn Marion
PF: George McGinnis
CE: Wilt Chamberlain
BENCH:Bobby Jones, Mel Daniels, Dale Ellis, Kirk Hinrich, Tayshaun Prince
[#4] St. Louis Hawks Team:
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Mitch Richmond
SF: Bernard King
PF: Buck Williams
CE: Tim Duncan
BENCH: Brad Daugherty, Andrew Toney, Paul Silas, Gus Williams, Richard Jefferson
Last edited by Seuss : 07-14-2007 at 05:17 PM.
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07-14-2007, 05:11 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,039
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Re: Conf. East Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #4 St. Louis Hawks
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First a look at the matchups . . . again, we start George McGinnis though Bobby Jones plays 30 minutes a game at PF/SF/and even SG at spots and is usually in at crunch time for his shut down defense and high percentage shooting.
At center, Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time, as an all-time center he is still terrific, a top 10 player. Wilt, however, is the greatest of all time. He is too strong for Tim when on offense, and is a more intimidating help defender at the other end. If they don't double Wilt, he will destroy even as great a defender as Tim Duncan (Boston always doubled down to help Russell); if they do, it will leave another very good scorer with open shooting lanes for Wilt's spectacular post passing.
Buck Williams v. George McGinnis. Buck is a very solid player who will rebound and shot a high percentage off putbacks and short jumpers. George was, for a stretch of 5 or so years, one of the most dominant players of all time averaging 25/14/4 for Indiana and Philadelphia with great quickness to go with his strength and shooting range all the way out to the three point line. He will be our second option, pulling Buck away from the basket then using his passing to hit our wing scorers or his superior quickness to knife around Buck for offensive board if Buck comes out. If Buck doesn't, he will feast off open jump shots instead of the double teaming he consistently faced.
Bernard King v. Shawn Marion. King has a much better isolation game than Marion and will get points if given his touches, Marion is more explosive at the basket and has a three point shot. Marion was also a much much better rebounder and defender than King and will have more of an impact on the game unless St. Louis focuses it's whole offense through King as his teams sometimes did (usage rates of 30.2, 30.4, 34.6, and 36.2! As a comparisom, Julius Erving never had a usage rate over 32.6 even in the ABA. We will attack King's weak defense with our 4 starters with 6+assists looking for Marion driving on King to take advantage of his strength and dunking. If King suddenly heats up, we will bring in Bobby Jones with his 11 straight 1st team All-D to cool him off. King will get his points, but Marion should equal or surpass his impact with his own offense, his rebounding, and his defense.
Mitch Richmond v. Fat Lever. Like King, Richmond was a mediocre defender who racked up terrific offensive numbers on less than great teams. His shooting efficiency is similar to that of Lever, his passing, rebounding and defense are weaker. Again, we will be looking to hit Lever on the weak side driving on Richmond's average defense or for open jumpers if Richmond doubles off him though the mismatch isn't as great as Marion driving on King.
Walt Frazier v. Gary Payton. Frazier and Payton are the two greatest defensive point guards of all time. Both are also dangerous offensive players and playmakers. The main difference between the two is Frazier's superior jump shot; I expect these two to generally negate each other as we will prefer to attack St. Louis's weak wing defenders but if Payton has to double down onto Wilt, Frazier will destroy St. Louis off passes out of the post.
The bench: Daugherty is a better shooter and passer, Daniels a better rebounder and much better defender. Ellis and Toney are both pure shooters, Ellis is the greater volume scorer and more efficient, Toney the better ballhandler and a slightly better defender. However, Silas is not close to the equivalent of Bobby jones either offensively (Jones scores more, more efficienty, and with better range) or defensively (very good v. great). Hinrich and Prince bring better defense and 3 point shooting v. Williams and Jefferson's adding even more shooting.
Wilt Chamberlain 1966-67 PHI 81g 45.5min 24.2reb 7.8ast 24.1pts .683fg/.441ft
In midst of 4 consecutive MVPs, won NBA championship, GOAT
George McGinnis f 1974-75 IND ABA 79g 40.4min 14.3reb 6.3ast 2.6st 0.7bl 29.8pt .451fg/.354x3/.724ft
ABA MVP, continued to get better than 24/13/3 for next four years with 76ers in NBA
Shawn Marion 2005-06 PHO 81g 40.3min 11.8reb 1.8 ast 2.0st 1.7bl 21.8pts .525fg/.331x3/.809ft
2nd team All-Defense, dominant with or without Nash, with or without Marion, www.82games.com DPOY in 06-07!
Lafayette Lever 1988-89 DEN 71g 38.7min 9.3reb 7.9ast 2.7st 0.3bl 19.8pts .457fg/.348x3/.785ft
2nd team All-Defense, Best game was v. Chi: 31pts/16reb/20ast/6st guarded by Jordan and Pippen!
Walt Frazier 1969-70 NYK 77g 39.5min 6.0reb 8.2ast 20.9pts .518/.748
1st team All-NBA, One of 7 1st Team All-Defense awards, NBA Champion
Bench
Bobby Jones f 1976-77 DEN NBA 82g 29.5min 8.3reb 3.2ast 2.3st 2.0bl 15.1pts .570fg/.717ft
Most decorated defensive player of all time with 11 first team and 1 2nd plus career .550+ shooter
Mel Daniels c/f 1970-71 IND ABA 82g 38.7min 18.0reb 2.2ast 21.0pts .514fg/.679ft
2 time MVP, one of only 10 players to ever do so, except Nash, all others are top 20 all-time
Dale Ellis g/f 1988-89 SEA 82g 38.9min 4.2reb 2.0ast 1.3st 0.3bl 27.5pts .501fg/.478x3/.816ft
Career .400+ from 3 point range; one of 4 straight years of 24 ppg for Seattle
Kirk Hinrich g 2006-07 CHI 80g 35.5min 3.4reb 6.3ast 1.3st 0.3bl 16.6pts .448fg/.415x3/.835ft 2nd team All-D
Tayshaun Prince f 2006-07 DET 82g 36.6min 5.2reb 2.8ast 0.6st 0.7bl 14.3pts .460fg/.386x3/.768ft 2nd All-D
__________________
If you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk
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07-15-2007, 07:52 AM
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#3 (permalink)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,039
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Re: Conf. East Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #4 St. Louis Hawks
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Team Analysis:
Inside Scoring: Bullets. Chamberlain is a far more physical and dominant post scorer than Duncan and McGinnis/Marion will be able to go to the hole on Buck/Bernard more effectively than Buck/Bernanrd will on them.
Outside Scoring: St. Louis. Richmond is the best outside shooter on the floor and King has a nice midrange game though Frazier and McGinnis are better midrange scorers than Payton and Williams. The Bullets bench cuts this edge even more though as Ellis and Bobby Jones are more effective outside shooters than Toney and Daugherty (Silas and Daniels have little outside game). Hinrich provides late game 3point shooting if needed.
Defense: Bullets. Frazier and Payton cancel out, Chamberlain has a slight edge over Duncan, Williams an edge over McGinnis but Marion, and Lever are much better than King and Richmond and Bobby Jones gives the Bullets a big bench boost defensively as well.
Passing: Bullets. Washington has 4 outstanding passers who averaged at least 6 assists per game at peak, CHamberlain, McGinnis, Lever and Frazier though McGinnis's role is less initiating on this team; St. Louis has Payton, though Duncan, Richmond (and particularly Daugherty off the bench if they play his weak defense v. Chamberlain) are also good passers. Against pressure which both Payton and Frazier are superb at, having a second PG in Lever also gives us an edge.
Clutch play: St. Louis. Of these players only Frazier and Duncan are known for clutch play though Mcginnis has a finals MVP and Toney was famous for his heroics against the Celtics. Although Washington has more starters with clutch credentials, Chamberlain's free throw woes have me give the edge to St. Louis.
Depth: Bullets. Out top 3 off the bench are Bobby Jones (11 time 1st team all-D and .550 shooter at >15ppg), Mel Daniels (2 time ABA MVP), and Dale Ellis (27 ppg at .500FG and .478 from 3!). Daniels defense is more important than Daugherty's passing, Ellis can outshoot Toney, and Jones is a major step up from Silas.
Again, overall, Washington controls the inside play and has the edge defensively; Chamberlain will demand doubleteams or devastate the Hawks and doubleteams will free our shooters plus we will be working on the weak Hawks wing players, particularly King. St. Louis will try to get shooters hot from the outside with their scoring wings (Bobby Jones will be our cooler if needed) and bring it down to the final moments where they will try the Hack-a-Wilt defense and to keep Frazier and McGinnis from stepping up. The better rebounding team wins 70% of the games (thanks TKB) and inside scoring tends to be even more important in playoffs so I see Washington winning this series (shocked, aren't you, lol).
__________________
If you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk
Last edited by BadBaronRudigor : 07-15-2007 at 07:28 PM.
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07-15-2007, 03:56 PM
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#4 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Miami / NJ
Posts: 3,092
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Re: Conf. East Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #4 St. Louis Hawks
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Can we please put microphones on GP and Clyde throughout this whole series? That matchup is gonna be something...
Waiting on the other writeup before I jump in.
__________________
A man said to the universe:
"Sir I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
- Stephen Crane
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07-16-2007, 08:44 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: D.C.
Posts: 4,009
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Re: Conf. East Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #4 St. Louis Hawks
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Well, I'll say at the outset that this is one of the possible matchups I haven't looked forward to since the beginning of the season, since the Bullets' two best players play the same positions as--and were drafted ahead of--the Hawks' two best players. It's possible that my road ends here, but let's try anyway...
Payton-Frazier should be an awesome matchup and highly entertaining. The only notable edge either has is that Clyde is a somewhat better outside shooter. He still has to be able to get that jumper off, though. I think these two guys are plastered all over each other through the entire series, with each having a big game here and there but neither dominating the other.
Wilt is obviously the key factor in the series, and there's no way to really stop him. But the Hawks won't panic. Duncan will play him (carefully) straight up for most of the first three quarters. Boston generally had to give Russell help, since he gave up 4 inches and about 80 lbs. to a prime Wilt. Duncan gives up a negligible inch and 40 lbs. He's much bigger and stronger than the vast majority of opponents Wilt terrorized, and will be harder to muscle than both Kareem and Russell. Wilt's strength will still get him into position, but remember that his bread-and-butter shot wasn't a high percentage wheel-and-dunk (see: Shaq) or skyhook (see: Kareem), but instead a fadeaway jumper. He was criticized for it in his day, but he was desperate to prove that he was a true athlete and even artist on the floor--not a monster or physical freak. He admitted himself that he didn't really play to his own strengths.
And as was the case with Russell in the previous series, Duncan isn't giving up all that much of an advantage in rebounding.
Again, Wilt gets his points here, and more than likely is the series' high scorer. But all this goes to say that he's not going to overwhelm Timmy. Buck or Silas can swing over occasionally to help with a strong body on Wilt occasionally, but for the most part Duncan will play him straight up. McGinnis, after all, is a higher percentage scorer than the Stilt, so the Hawks can't give him easy straight-up jumpers.
The fourth quarter, though, the Hawks go shamelessly into Hack-a-Wilt territory. Duncan will swing to PF, where he is way too big and too skilled a defender for McGinnis, let alone Jones, to do much with. Daugherty, Buck and Silas will happily parcel out their fouls to send the big man to the line, slowing down the game and encouraging the Bullets to try other options.
On offense, the Hawks will play the game that helped them squeeze past Indiana--pushing the pace to give King, Richmond and Jefferson their looks in transition, and in the half court letting Duncan step up for his bread-and-better jumper so that Wilt has to choose between keeping a hand in his face or taking his intimidating presence out of the paint. Duncan/Daugherty will generally opt for the high post, setting up the virtuoso slashers and shooters (Richmond and Toney, especially). Marion is a good and versatile defender, but King should get his points both in isolation and in transition. If he's guarded by Jones, that takes a superior scorer and rebounder off the floor for Washington.
Richmond could be an important factor here, remembering that Lever (one of my favorite players ever) racked up most of his impressive figures against opposing PGs with less size, skill and range than Mitch.
I expect both sets of starters to play very heavy minutes, with Bobby Jones maybe seeing the most PT off anyone's bench. But again, the reserve bigs will take turns throwing themselves at Wilt later in the game. If Lever is finding ways to take Richmond off the dribble, I'll have no compunction switching in Toney, who was ridiculously strong for his size and a bit fleeter of foot. I mostly agree with Baron's assessment of the benches, although should point out that Silas was no slouch defensively, was a much better rebounder than Jones, and a terrific winner. And Williams and Jefferson bring more defensively than Hinrich and Prince do as scorers.
Wilt's presence will give Washington the edge with the Vegas oddsmakers, but it stands to reason that Duncan can give him as much trouble as anyone he ever faced, and the Hawks will happily force him to the foul line as the game progresses. St. Louis' wings, especially King, should find enough scoring opportunities--even against the Bullets' fine defenders--to keep the Hawks within range for the first three quarters, and Frazier will find himself plagued by the best defender he's ever faced. Duncan is a master at controlling the tempo at crunch time, and Toney and Duncan will be looked to for clutch baskets when the chips are down.
Should be a great series. Good luck Baron!
__________________
Favorite players: Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone, Bill Russell, Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe, Sidney Moncrief, Lafayette Lever, Dan Issel, Bobby Jones, Julius Erving, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West...and Brooks Thompson
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07-16-2007, 09:02 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,039
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Re: Conf. East Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #4 St. Louis Hawks
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Couple of things about Jericho's post. (1) True that Wilt's break and butter shot was a "less efficient" fallaway jumper. He shot .683 with it for the season so . . . (2)Bobby Jones actually played mainly center for a stretch with Denver. He was 6'9 with great leaping ability (>2 blocks/game) and Duncan won't destroy him any more than the 7'3 Artis Gilmore did. McGinnis was also a tremendously strong, quick player though clearly not the defensive force Wilt or Jones were. (3)Lever racked up his 4 great 18/9/8 seasons playing big guard next to diminuitive 3 point specialist Michael Adams, not playing the point. He was a very good PG but when playing point, he was more a pass first, outside shooting, first line of defense against fast breaks player and didn't score or rebound as much, it was when he shifted to SG that his numbers took off. And finally (4) Hinrich's playoff scoring average is 20.8 ppg (6.8 assists, .441 from 3!); he steps up big in the playoffs and when he is in, should have a decided advantage over defensively challenged Gus Williams.
Your writeups are always a pleasure Jericho and I've enjoyed all your comments. Thanks and I look forward to future discussions.
__________________
If you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk
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07-16-2007, 07:41 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: D.C.
Posts: 4,009
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Re: Conf. East Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #4 St. Louis Hawks
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BadBaronRudigor
Couple of things about Jericho's post. (1) True that Wilt's break and butter shot was a "less efficient" fallaway jumper. He shot .683 with it for the season so . . .
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Ah, well, if you're going to get picky about it.
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Originally Posted by BadBaronRudigor
McGinnis was also a tremendously strong, quick player though clearly not the defensive force Wilt or Jones were.
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Oh, I remember watching McGinnis play. A big talent, although he had a bit of a rep. You notice Tim Duncan hasn't been allowed to bounce from team to team throughout HIS career! [/quote]
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Originally Posted by BadBaronRudigor
(3)Lever racked up his 4 great 18/9/8 seasons playing big guard next to diminuitive 3 point specialist Michael Adams, not playing the point. He was a very good PG but when playing point, he was more a pass first, outside shooting, first line of defense against fast breaks player and didn't score or rebound as much, it was when he shifted to SG that his numbers took off.
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Mm, I remember Adams mostly as the third guard off the bench, and I pretty much never remember Lever as a full-time SG. T.R. Dunn was the longtime starter at SG...good rebounding and defense, and zippy offense. Adams didn't really have a chance to bust out as a starter until the Paul Westhead circus, as I recall.
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Originally Posted by BadBaronRudigor
Your writeups are always a pleasure Jericho and I've enjoyed all your comments. Thanks and I look forward to future discussions.
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Likewise! It's been a pleasure getting chewed up by Wilt. Good luck in the Finals!
__________________
Favorite players: Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone, Bill Russell, Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe, Sidney Moncrief, Lafayette Lever, Dan Issel, Bobby Jones, Julius Erving, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West...and Brooks Thompson
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