View Poll Results: Which team do you feel is the best?
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Bullets
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9 |
90.00% |
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Rockets
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1 |
10.00% |
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07-16-2007, 11:45 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Your Humble Homer, Seuss
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Inside a computer, touching gadgets
Age: 18
Posts: 10,217
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Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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GM/Coach has one day to get his gameplan up. Here's a gameplan template.
Offensive Plan:
Defensive Plan:
Overall Focus:
[#3] Washington Bullets Team:
PG: Walt Frazier
SG: Fat Lever
SF: Shawn Marion
PF: George McGinnis
CE: Wilt Chamberlain
BENCH: Bobby Jones, Mel Daniels, Dale Ellis, Kirk Hinrich, Tayshaun Prince
[#3] Houston Rockets Team:
PG: Steve Nash
SG: Dwayne Wade
SF: Ron Artest
PF: Elton Brand
C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
BENCH: Michael Redd, Deron Williams, Mehmet Okur, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Luol Deng
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Originally Posted by Kekai
You still a Suns fan after watching this **** tonight? lol
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07-16-2007, 05:11 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,131
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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The Finals!
Thanks for everyone that participated in drafting, playing and voting. This one will be focused on the two big matchups . . . center and point guard. In each, Washington has the stronger, more physical player with the greater defensive game; Houston has the flashier more offensively oriented player.
C Wilt v. Kareem. They played each other pretty evenly in the early 70s. Kareem was at his physical and statistical peak, Wilt on his still spectacular downside. Kareem won the scoring battles, Wilt the rebounding. But Kareem never faced Wilt at his peak when he was able to score with Kareem (less shots but a much higher percentage plus more assists) while still out rebounding Kareem and being a more intimidating help defender (few players can say that about Kareem, Wilt is one). Edge Washington.
PF McGinnis v. Brand. This time McGinnis is the higher scoring, rebounding, and passing player while Brand is the higher percentage low post defender. However, with Kareem and Wilt taking up the low post, Brand will be forced out of his primary comfort zone to chase McGinnis for his jump shots and drives while being unable to set up as often in his favorite low post. Edge Washington.
SF Marion v. Artest. Two great defenders, but Marion is much the better help defender (important when talking about the 4th and 5th options) plus Marion is a great rebounder. Artest is only average. Marion is also a better team player. Edge Washington.
SG Lever v. Wade. Finally, an opponent without a big height advantage on Lever, lol. Wade is the more explosive scorer; Lever has the edge on rebounding and passing, both have won NBA All-defensive team honors and have tremendous quickness and leaping ability. Wade’s offense will be somewhat limited because the foul drawing he relies on in his drives to the lane won’t be there v. Wilt. In 14 seasons of playing more than 45 minutes a game, Wilt averaged only about 2 fouls and NEVER fouled out of a game. Still, edge Houston.
PG Frazier v. Nash. Both excellent playmakers and high percentage scorers who excel in transition. Nash dominates the ball much more but since he is so productive with it, that isn't a problem. The problem is his defense or lack of it. Frazier is the greatest defensive PG ever (Payton is very close) and will cause Nash trouble, Nash will need help or Frazier will have a very big series. Edge WASHINGTON.
Bench. Bobby Jones, Mel Daniels, Dale Ellis, Kirk Hinrich have a huge advantage over the likes of Deng, Z/Okur, Redd, and Deron Williams. Edge WASHINGTON
Wilt Chamberlain 1966-67 PHI 81g 45.5min 24.2reb 7.8ast 24.1pts .683fg/.441ft
In midst of 4 consecutive MVPs, won NBA championship, GOAT
George McGinnis f 1974-75 IND ABA 79g 40.4min 14.3reb 6.3ast 2.6st 0.7bl 29.8pt .451fg/.354x3/.724ft
ABA MVP, continued to get better than 24/13/3 for next four years with 76ers in NBA
Shawn Marion 2005-06 PHO 81g 40.3min 11.8reb 1.8 ast 2.0st 1.7bl 21.8pts .525fg/.331x3/.809ft
2nd team All-Defense, dominant with or without Nash, with or without Marion, www.82games.com DPOY in 06-07!
Lafayette Lever 1988-89 DEN 71g 38.7min 9.3reb 7.9ast 2.7st 0.3bl 19.8pts .457fg/.348x3/.785ft
2nd team All-Defense, Best game was v. Chi: 31pts/16reb/20ast/6st guarded by Jordan and Pippen!
Walt Frazier 1969-70 NYK 77g 39.5min 6.0reb 8.2ast 20.9pts .518fg%/.748ft%
1st team All-NBA, One of 7 1st Team All-Defense awards, NBA Champion
Bench
Bobby Jones f 1976-77 DEN NBA 82g 29.5min 8.3reb 3.2ast 2.3st 2.0bl 15.1pts .570fg/.717ft
Most decorated defensive player of all time with 11 first team and 1 2nd plus career .550+ shooter
Mel Daniels c/f 1970-71 IND ABA 82g 38.7min 18.0reb 2.2ast 21.0pts .514fg/.679ft
2 time MVP, one of only 10 players to ever do so, except Nash, all others are top 20 all-time
Dale Ellis g/f 1988-89 SEA 82g 38.9min 4.2reb 2.0ast 1.3st 0.3bl 27.5pts .501fg/.478x3/.816ft
Career .400+ from 3 point range; one of 4 straight years of 24 ppg for Seattle
Kirk Hinrich g 2006-07 CHI 80g 35.5min 3.4reb 6.3ast 1.3st 0.3bl 16.6pts .448fg/.415x3/.835ft 2nd team All-D
Tayshaun Prince f 2006-07 DET 82g 36.6min 5.2reb 2.8ast 0.6st 0.7bl 14.3pts .460fg/.386x3/.768ft 2nd All-D
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If you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk
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07-16-2007, 05:41 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Player
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 680
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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I didn't expect to see these two in the finals, and it may just have been a series of favourable matchups, but between the two, the Bullets jump out as the better "team" in the true sense of that word, and also have good individual pieces.
I also don't think Carbo is going to be putting a writeup up, so I guess my vote is the Bullets, and I think they will go on to win it, so congratulations Baron.
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07-17-2007, 03:56 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,131
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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Team Matchups:
Inside scoring: Wilt did not score as much as Kareem but he went for 24 ppg on .683 fg%! Brand will have trouble getting his spot with Wilt and Kareem setting up in the blocks, Edge Houston.
Outside shooting. Neither team really lights it up from downtown though Nash is the best on the floor from 3 point territory. Lever, Marion and McGinnis all shoot around .350 from 3 and Frazier, Lever and McGinnis have excellent midrange games to counter the outside shooting of Nash and Wade. Edge WASHINGTON.
Passing. Nash is the outstanding playmaker on the floor, but Wilt, McGinnis, Lever and Frazier all are outstanding passers averaging over 6 assists each. Kareem, Brand, and Wade are all good passers too but not quite at that level. Edge WASHINGTON.
Rebounding. Chamberlain is easily the best rebounder on the floor; even in his best seasons, Kareem was not at his level. Similarly, McGinnis and Lever got more rebounds than Brand and Wade though in faster paced games and even if those are considered even, Frazier and especially Marion have a big rebounding edge, as does our bench. Edge WASHINGTON.
Defense. Kareem was a great defender, Chamberlain was better. Brand and Wade hold edges over McGinnis and Lever, Marion is at least even with Artest (Artest has the man up edge, Marion the help defense), but the key here is that Frazier is a great, game changing defender at the point of attack, Nash is a poor one. And of course, Bobby Jones gives our bench a big advantage as well. Edge WASHINGTON.
Depth. Michael Redd and Dale Ellis are similar player, Daniels’s defense and rebounding give him the edge over Houston’s backup bigs, Hinrich gives better outside shooting and defense than Deron, and of course Bobby Jones is far better than Luol Deng (at least to this point in Deng’s young career). Edge WASHINGTON
Clutch Play. Kareem and Wade are big time clutch players; Frazier and McGinnis are also notorious for stepping up their games in the finals. Wilt and Marion score less but increase their already superb rebounding in the playoffs. Still, as in every series, the threat of Hack-a-Wilt makes this a tough area. Edge HOUSTON.
Overall. Both teams have balancing strengths offensively with Nash and Wade’s creativity and Kareem’s skyhook being balanced by Wilt’s incredible low post game and Washington’s passing and midrange game. However, defense and rebounding win championships and Washington has the edge in both. Add to that Houston’s weak bench and this should be a championship for the Bullets.
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If you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk
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07-17-2007, 07:11 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: D.C.
Posts: 4,188
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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This could be a good series. I'd love to see a write-up on Houston's gameplan. Hopefully Carbo will resurface.
Houston has a very talented starting 5, and I think the bench isn't quite as suspect as some folks have been suggesting. Redd belongs in this league, and if you take Deron's last season he was approaching the level of, say, a prime Rod Strickland. And Ilgauskas is at least a strong dude with a low-post game and a handful of all-star games under his belt. Not much defense coming from the bench, though.
But my biggest issue is that I don't see Nash at his absolute best with this roster. He's going to be forced into more conventional half-court sets rather than dominate with the offensive schemes that won him 2 MVP awards. He doesn't have the full cast of finishers and shooters that allowed him to rack up those stats. Wade and Redd certainly can play with him...but mostly not at the same time, since neither one of them matches up well at SF in this series.
Nash will still be very good, but again, doing more conventional stuff... Pounding the ball into Kareem (and Brand/Big Z) and spotting up for the kickout jumper to space the floor...hovering on the periphery and looking for Wade cutting to the hoop...penetrating and then dishing out to Redd or Okur...
With Nash a bit less of a threat to run his opponent absolutely ragged, Baron might consider sticking Lever on him and using Frazier to hound Wade. I think over the course of a full series, Wade would be bound to have some huge games against Lever. If Wilt steps out to shut him down, Wade is a quick and crafty passer and could reasonably risk some quick drop-offs to Kareem. I don't know if this is a difference-maker in the series, but Wade is certainly Houston's biggest edge here.
So...leaning toward Washington, but I'd love to hear more discussion.
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Favorite players: Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone, Bill Russell, Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe, Sidney Moncrief, Lafayette Lever, Dan Issel, Bobby Jones, Julius Erving, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West...and Brooks Thompson
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07-17-2007, 09:58 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Miami / NJ
Posts: 3,138
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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Washington is very strong on the glass, that's probably their biggest strength and what allows them to control the pace of games. I think Kareem and Wilt more or less cancel out, Nash shoots well but has trouble creating off the dribble against the defensive Washington guards and Wilt, Brand is forced to work harder than he's used to on both ends (and to step out to the perimeter on D) vs. McGinnis and Jones, and they end up relying too much on Wade in the halfcourt. I'm a Heat fan, I love Wade, but I don't think that's enough. Washington takes it.
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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master— that's all."
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07-17-2007, 02:27 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Banned Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SA TX
Age: 15
Posts: 13,091
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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how the **** did weak bench make it to the finals
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07-17-2007, 03:06 PM
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#8 (permalink)
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,953
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MDIZZ
how the **** did weak bench make it to the finals
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I have no clue. The bench stinks, they shouldn't have gotten past the Jazz. The Bullets should win this series. They have advantages everywhere except for Wade and Lever.
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07-17-2007, 03:10 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Welcome to Indiana.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 3,564
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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Very surprised to see these two teams in the Finals but I gotta go with the Bullets. I've said it many times before and I'm going to say it one more time...Picking ALL Current NBA players doesn't impress me at all.
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07-18-2007, 01:33 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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Star
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: D.C.
Posts: 4,188
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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I hope we can get more than 4 votes in for this!
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Favorite players: Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone, Bill Russell, Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe, Sidney Moncrief, Lafayette Lever, Dan Issel, Bobby Jones, Julius Erving, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West...and Brooks Thompson
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07-20-2007, 12:40 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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Your Humble Homer, Seuss
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Inside a computer, touching gadgets
Age: 18
Posts: 10,217
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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Congrats to the Bullets for winning the Legend's draft!
__________________
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kekai
You still a Suns fan after watching this **** tonight? lol
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The Best Damn Babe Thread
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07-26-2007, 07:43 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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Jesus Shuttlesworth
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Age: 21
Posts: 11,156
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Re: Legend's Finals - #3 Washington Bullets vs #3 Houston Rockets
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The team who got tha #1 pick winning it ruins it for me. Seems to be luck of the draw
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