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Old 09-01-2012, 06:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Rockets Re: Being...out of touch

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I got no problems with the drone strikes. We have been extremely effective at it, last couple of days we have done some major damage to Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and the collateral damage has been pretty insignificant. Truth is I think we should start killing some of our 'allies' in the S Wing of the ISI. Actually I think we should kill all of them since they are clearly working with our enemies.

We have no real choice unless you want to let them alone so that they can go about the business of killing innocent people unhindered.
There are lots of choices. And the murdering of civilians at funerals is pretty much a guarantee that these movements will survive and prosper because there will always be new volunteers ready to strike back.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:36 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

Those are not civilians. You should do a bit of homework. The truth is we have killed extremely few non-combatants in the drone strikes. We both know that even after you learn that you won't admit it, so just pretend that you're right.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

Indeed, one of us should do some homework. But one of us has read something more than the US's official justifications for bombing funerals. And every time the government does it they push up the amount of hatred/resentment in the third world.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

I bet you can't even find a verified report of civilian casualties in the Pakistani press that's less than six months old. You're sure to find a lot of obvious BS and hyperbole, but almost nothing which has even the tint of truth to it. The vast majority of these reports are outright lies and propaganda by the Taliban. If they had more they'd certainly trot it out.
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:05 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

"You can't find reports of the US killing civilians less than six months old therefore it never happened!!!!"

Thanks for making my point that the US has two neoconservative political parties.
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

You are being ridiculous...instead of backing up your assertions. Why is that?

I am in favor of killing people who want to kill me. It's a radical position I know. That makes me Paul Wolfowitz? Go try that nonsense on someone else. How do you define NeoConservatism? It seems that you have a very strange idea of what it means.
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:27 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

The reports date back to 2009 in the New York Times, that official organ of Al-Qaeda, I know. There have been news stories about the strategy right through to this year, most recently Glen Greenwald wrote of it, all sourced and linked. It has been ongoing for the last decade.

Me? I'm not in favour of killing people in hope that I will scare them enough that nothing bad will come of it. Because after ten years it doesn't seem to be working all that well. Al-Qaeda is still here and they're still finding recruits.
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:37 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

So you're going to accuse me of being an ideologue? Then you're going to cite something which happened three years ago. The reason Al Qaeda and the Taliban are still around is because they have a sanctuary in Pakistan and because the Pakistanis are playing both sides against the other because of their paranoia about India's expanding power and influence.

We have no practical solution to that problem and I never said that we did. The drone strikes are the only option we do have other under the circumstances. We are doing what we can do, rather than doing something some ideologue would endorse. My position is that we should be targeting the people in the Pakistani Military-Intelligence apparatus who are ultimately responsible. We just aren't killing the real enemy.
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

The story I read last March covered events from 2004-2012. Last time I checked we weren't in 2015. I know that it's hard to believe that the national security apparatus of the US could ever in any way be dishonest, but try to suspend your disbelief for just a few minutes.
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

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Ignorant. Those who go blindly through the election process saying "Well my vote doesn't matter so I don't pay attention" shouldn't complain about what happens for the next 4 years.

Apathy is one of the downfalls of the current generation.
i don't complain or give a shit. do you really think it's going to make a difference whether romney or obama is president?
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:51 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

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i don't complain or give a shit. do you really think it's going to make a difference whether romney or obama is president?
On Americans? No.

On their world policy? Yes.

On big oil? Yes.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:08 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

Romney pretty much frightens me with his apparent lack of knowledge of foreign policy. I especially do not like the fact that he seems eager to be Netanyahu's stooge in the Middle East. Some of the stuff he said while he was in Israel are very difficult to understand in the context of someone who wishes to become the most powerful man in the world, because it seems as though he wishes to surrender the making of US foreign policy to the head of a foreign state. It does not really matter to me that I know he's trying to get his ass elected either.

I am really surprised that the stuff he said about the Palestinians did not get more play as well. I mean doesn't he realize that it is the Israelis who are legally responsible for the Palestinian economy so long as they occupy the West Bank? They are responsible for both the wealth of the Israelis and the poverty of the Palestinians by any legal or moral yardstick.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:28 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

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Romney pretty much frightens me with his apparent lack of knowledge of foreign policy. I especially do not like the fact that he seems eager to be Netanyahu's stooge in the Middle East. Some of the stuff he said while he was in Israel are very difficult to understand in the context of someone who wishes to become the most powerful man in the world, because it seems as though he wishes to surrender the making of US foreign policy to the head of a foreign state. It does not really matter to me that I know he's trying to get his ass elected either.

I am really surprised that the stuff he said about the Palestinians did not get more play as well. I mean doesn't he realize that it is the Israelis who are legally responsible for the Palestinian economy so long as they occupy the West Bank? They are responsible for both the wealth of the Israelis and the poverty of the Palestinians by any legal or moral yardstick.
Israel always gets a free pass from America.

They could obliterate a small country out of nowhere and America would defend it.

Disgusting.
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Old 09-01-2012, 11:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

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I spend the majority of my time with family and friends.

P.s You're lazy and look for excuses for your apathy.
How has your world changed because of your yard post?

How has Canada changed?

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Originally Posted by roux2dope View Post
Nobody's individual vote matters.. but when millions of people share that collective thought it really does matter
I'll give you that, but it's hard enough to get millions of people to share one thought, never mind a collection of thoughts.

The only people that seem to be able to manage that feat are tyrannical wankers.
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:48 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Being...out of touch

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How has your world changed because of your yard post?

How has Canada changed?



I'll give you that, but it's hard enough to get millions of people to share one thought, never mind a collection of thoughts.

The only people that seem to be able to manage that feat are tyrannical wankers.
The party I wanted to win stayed in office even though crushing defeat was forecasted.

The people I talked to and the ones I shamed into going out to vote are a small part of that happening.
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