Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper - Page 5 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums
BasketballForum.com is the premier basketball Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-06-2012, 01:05 AM   #61 (permalink)
Mammal
 
36 Karat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 24
Posts: 2,299
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

"He murders his own citizens without due process"

Is this on his own accord, or perhaps a perpetuation of an undertaking by a former chief executive or separate bureaucracy?

He's more a realist within the realm of American political discourse. As far as his vision for health care, I'm not so sure he could stretch that form as far as a single-payer plan requires. As a nation, the closest we've gotten to such is Vermont, and if I'm not mistaken they're still very much in the process of implementation. I'd compare it to Thomas Jefferson in the 1780's regarding slavery (his own faulted character aside). Initially, he pushed a bill to outlaw the practice; however, he eventually realized his own ambitions were far too large an undertaking given the then current political climate. Barack Obama, the politician, cannot accomplish as much as Barack Obama, the man, would like to when speaking of social progressiveness. Of course, this can be said of numerous politicians who, for political practicality, must project a sense of centrism far more neutral than their actual beliefs may be, relative to whatever political system they practice in.
36 Karat is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-06-2012, 01:15 AM   #62 (permalink)
Legend
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fort Campbell, KY
Age: 31
Posts: 16,963
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

Quote:
Originally Posted by 36 Karat View Post
"He murders his own citizens without due process"

Is this on his own accord, or perhaps a perpetuation of an undertaking by a former chief executive or separate bureaucracy?
No. Obama asserts that he alone is the final arbiter on whether to murder American citizens with drones. He has used this power. His constitutional argument is literally that due process has been afforded by his careful consideration of every case (which is unlikely considering how many people he has green lighted for death).

EDIT: Here is Glenn

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/5/3...cret_kill_list
Nimreitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:33 AM   #63 (permalink)
Mammal
 
36 Karat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 24
Posts: 2,299
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

I will say I haven't read enough Glenn Greenwald, save for a few Salon pieces. I hear he's got a number of great reads out.

As for drone strikes, I feel that topic in itself is pushed to a bound when we are still limited by information necessary to make an accurate judgment. Is it a shame, a tragedy -- is it wrong to take a life when due process has not been put to work? Absolutely. It's awful. But it's also something that stretches far back before Obama was even contemplating a political career -- politicians exercising power beyond their intended stature. There's simply too many variables to make an accurate assessment of this relatively new phenomenon, the hype of drones. And don't be distracted by my usage of the word "hype" -- they are very much real. However, for all we know it could be an incredibly effective tool for mitigating groups with radically violent agendas of their own. The deeper in thought I purge, it inevitably becomes clear that this world is a ****ed up place, as imperfect as it always has been, and of the two realistic options in this election cycle I believe Obama to be, unequivocally, the better option. And that is me approaching it from a humanistic perspective, denying economic or other avenues of thought, although, for me, they much lead the same.
36 Karat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 02:17 AM   #64 (permalink)
Legend
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 19,468
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

^About the incarceration rates, it's not a very useful list. Iraq is right above Canada on that list, so the numbers are skewed.

As for drone strikes, it's just a more advanced version of airstrikes. Drones aren't the problem; they're a symptom. US foreign policy has been doing the same thing since WW2, maybe before that too. If it weren't for drones, they'd be doing the same shit at a higher cost.
__________________
don't edit me bro
Mr. Hobbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 02:46 AM   #65 (permalink)
Legend
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fort Campbell, KY
Age: 31
Posts: 16,963
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

It isn't drone strikes on bomb factories. It's drone strikes against civilians who haven't been charged with any crimes.
Nimreitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 02:52 AM   #66 (permalink)
Legend
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 19,468
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimreitz View Post
It isn't drone strikes on bomb factories. It's drone strikes against civilians who haven't been charged with any crimes.
They'll do the same with airstrikes. It's been done before.
__________________
don't edit me bro
Mr. Hobbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 05:34 AM   #67 (permalink)
Legend
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fort Campbell, KY
Age: 31
Posts: 16,963
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

It has not been done before.
Nimreitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 07:38 AM   #68 (permalink)
Baddest Honky Mofo Alive
Photobucket
 
E.H. Munro's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 26,284
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 399 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

Quote:
Originally Posted by 36 Karat View Post
"He murders his own citizens without due process"

Is this on his own accord, or perhaps a perpetuation of an undertaking by a former chief executive or separate bureaucracy?
His own accord.
__________________
Not the Onion

"Opium is the religion of the masses." Fred Reed

E.H. Munro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:00 PM   #69 (permalink)
Mammal
 
36 Karat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 24
Posts: 2,299
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hobbes View Post
^About the incarceration rates, it's not a very useful list. Iraq is right above Canada on that list, so the numbers are skewed.

As for drone strikes, it's just a more advanced version of airstrikes. Drones aren't the problem; they're a symptom. US foreign policy has been doing the same thing since WW2, maybe before that too. If it weren't for drones, they'd be doing the same shit at a higher cost.
Echoing much of my message. Regarding the incarceration rates, they'll unfortunately always be skewed given the fact that they are generally self-reporting. There is no uniform measure of what constitutes an incarceration; in effect, many are actually overlooked given the brevity of their sentence.
36 Karat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:33 PM   #70 (permalink)
Mammal
 
36 Karat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 24
Posts: 2,299
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

Quote:
Originally Posted by E.H. Munro View Post
His own accord.
His own accord? Okay. So in the time Barack Obama has been POTUS, from 2008 to now, he not only demanded the creation of, but oversaw development, and enacted the drone program on his own accord? All in <4 years?
36 Karat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:40 PM   #71 (permalink)
Legend
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fort Campbell, KY
Age: 31
Posts: 16,963
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

Uh... yeah
Nimreitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:46 PM   #72 (permalink)
Mammal
 
36 Karat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 24
Posts: 2,299
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

Hmm. Yeah, like most things in this world I highly doubt it being that simple, in all likelihood it's much more complex of an issue. But it's your decision to put it all on Obama's shoulders if you so wish.
36 Karat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:50 PM   #73 (permalink)
Legend
 

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Fort Campbell, KY
Age: 31
Posts: 16,963
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

He's the President and Commander in Chief...
Nimreitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:56 PM   #74 (permalink)
Mammal
 
36 Karat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Milwaukee
Age: 24
Posts: 2,299
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

You're correct on your observation.
36 Karat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 05:00 PM   #75 (permalink)
Legend
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 19,468
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Re: Paul Ryan is a flip-flopper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimreitz View Post
It has not been done before.
Just so we're clear, are you saying civilian deaths by US 'collateral damage' didn't exist before drones?
__________________
don't edit me bro
Mr. Hobbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:55 PM.



User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2002 2013 BasketballBoards.net.

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1